T Nation

Anyone Do Kina Mutai Here?

Its not a sport, but was curious if anyone trains in KM here. KM is actual combat training.

no please inform us what it is with more detail…

The goal is to develop a very powerful grip, so your enemy can’t get out of your grasp. You then try and put yourself in position so that you can bite into his arteries and he can’t bite you back. He can’t get away and you are chewing through his flesh. The carotid artery is preferable, of course, but any artery will do, as they can’t get away. The enemy is held until he bleeds into unconsciousness and death.

To train, you wear a mouthguard and whoever can totally restrain his training partner and access an artery is the winner. The feeling even in training (a guy in my dochang is into this) is terrifying.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Its not a sport, but was curious if anyone trains in KM here. KM is actual combat training.[/quote]

Technically no. But the system I train in (well, technically “trained” in, since I haven’t been doing it with any consistency for a while) teaches many of the same tactics, on top of striking (American kickboxing mostly) and grappling (both Jiu-jitsu and wrestling). We used to bite each other all the time while rolling (only the more experienced people though), use eye attacks, nerve attacks, and body handles, small joint locks and all of that other wonderful stuff that you can’t do in competition. Good times, good times. :wink:

KM isn’t a very popular art. I know that Vunak has studied it and I believe might have a DVD on it (but don’t quote me on that). So, that might be one place to look if you’re seriously looking for KM.

nm

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The goal is to develop a very powerful grip, so your enemy can’t get out of your grasp. You then try and put yourself in position so that you can bite into his arteries and he can’t bite you back. He can’t get away and you are chewing through his flesh. The carotid artery is preferable, of course, but any artery will do, as they can’t get away. The enemy is held until he bleeds into unconsciousness and death.

To train, you wear a mouthguard and whoever can totally restrain his training partner and access an artery is the winner. The feeling even in training (a guy in my dochang is into this) is terrifying.[/quote]

I seriously thought you were kidding about this.

Who knew there was such an art…

this is a joke, right?

When cannibals take over the world, you’ll be kings.

Don’t know why anyone would want to practice that in the our age of HIV,Hepatitis. You would have to be in a very,very desperate situation…a one in million encounter to even do that in self defense.

And does it really take an art to teach you how to bite someone?? Just saying.

Zombie-Fu, imo

kidding :slight_smile:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Don’t know why anyone would want to practice that in the our age of HIV,Hepatitis. You would have to be in a very,very desperate situation…a one in million encounter to even do that in self defense.
[/quote]

Good point. And this was something that got brought up a lot whenever we’d practice biting. We were taught to bite where there was clothing so as to avoid drawing blood but still cause enough pain to get a reaction. In order to actually use it in an attempt to kill someone (or maim them), yes you would absolutely have to be in a position where that was pretty much your only option.

[quote]
And does it really take an art to teach you how to bite someone?? Just saying.[/quote]

Actually there is an art to biting just like anything else. Most people also only think of biting 1 dimensionally (usually they think of maiming or killing). When in fact you can use a bite to anchor, to weaken, to create space, to submit, to intimidate, and yes to maim or even kill. Also learning how and when to blend it with your other tactics (as set-ups, follow throughs, etc…) is also an art.

Also knowing how to prevent it is also a good skill. And like anything else, the best way to learn how to use/defend against it is by testing it against a fully resisting opponent often.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Don’t know why anyone would want to practice that in the our age of HIV,Hepatitis. You would have to be in a very,very desperate situation…a one in million encounter to even do that in self defense.

And does it really take an art to teach you how to bite someone?? Just saying.[/quote]

Absolutely agree with the disease point. I’ll never train this, shit, just rolling you’ve got staph to worry on…
Seriously though, I would think biting is kind of like punching, all of us can punch, but they have technique and training specificity.

Any of you guys who have practiced it, can you point the rest of us to some good resources where we can learn more?

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Don’t know why anyone would want to practice that in the our age of HIV,Hepatitis. You would have to be in a very,very desperate situation…a one in million encounter to even do that in self defense.

Good point. And this was something that got brought up a lot whenever we’d practice biting. We were taught to bite where there was clothing so as to avoid drawing blood but still cause enough pain to get a reaction. In order to actually use it in an attempt to kill someone (or maim them), yes you would absolutely have to be in a position where that was pretty much your only option.

And does it really take an art to teach you how to bite someone?? Just saying.

Actually there is an art to biting just like anything else. Most people also only think of biting 1 dimensionally (usually they think of maiming or killing). When in fact you can use a bite to anchor, to weaken, to create space, to submit, to intimidate, and yes to maim or even kill. Also learning how and when to blend it with your other tactics (as set-ups, follow throughs, etc…) is also an art.

Also knowing how to prevent it is also a good skill. And like anything else, the best way to learn how to use/defend against it is by testing it against a fully resisting opponent often.[/quote]

Good info. I also might add that I remember getting in a fight when I was younger and biting the guy’s arm to get out of a headlock. The bite I left on him ended up getting infected really bad…human bites can be nasty.

I have used a bite to break out of a lock before. It worked effortlessly and amazingly fast / well. I was just testing the waters, it was a “weak” bite, I wasn’t trying to break skin or anything. It is amazing how much force the jaw can create and since it is directed to such a small area it can create a lot of pain quickly. I went from being in a lock and basically helpless, to switching position and being the aggressor just from a weak bite. I imagine if someone trained in whatever this is, they would have a lot of experience in not only delivering various bites to important locations, but in also knowing what a bite pain feels like and being able to think thru it clearer.

but on the flip side, like what was said, we all know how to bite and if you are ever in a situation where there is no way out and a bite is available, I think most people would default to it anyway. If your childhood was anything like mine, biting was one of the first ways we learn to defend ourselves.

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Any of you guys who have practiced it, can you point the rest of us to some good resources where we can learn more?[/quote]

Like I said I haven’t actually practiced “Kino Mutai” per se. But the system that I train/trained in, Lysak’s Sento Method, includes biting as one of it’s “7 Main Arsenals of Tools” (7 MAT for short). We also practice(d) preventing someone from being able to use the 7 MAT against us, referred to as “7 MAP” (Main Arsenal Proof).

You can find out more about Sento here:
http://realityconnection.nfshost.com/

Here is a couple short videos of Kino Mutai (the first is Paul Vunak and the better video, I don’t know who the second is):

http://realityconnection.nfshost.com/

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Don’t know why anyone would want to practice that in the our age of HIV,Hepatitis. You would have to be in a very,very desperate situation…a one in million encounter to even do that in self defense.

And does it really take an art to teach you how to bite someone?? Just saying.[/quote]

Yes. The biting is different than ordinary biting. Because you may not want to kill your assailant, the goal is to bite and terrify. Its more of a gnawing than a bite. Imagine someone holding you down, you’re helpless, and they are gnawing through your flesh. The bitten person would lose all rationality. You, the biter, could then disengage and run away.

Training is done with large chunks of meat.

I know it sounds crazy as hell but Filipinos practice it.

Marv Albert has a black belt in it.

I’ve done a little bit of it in training, but definitely not with the intention that it would be my main focus in a fight. In my case, it’s pretty much reserved for the life and death scenario - on the ground with multiple opponents set on killing you and you with no better options.

Damn, that’s some messed up junk. I think that might backfire. I mean, if some asshole bit me I’d probably flip out and beat him to death just on principal.

[quote]conorh wrote:
Damn, that’s some messed up junk. I think that might backfire. I mean, if some asshole bit me I’d probably flip out and beat him to death just on principal.[/quote]

Which is why you can’t just rely on biting. You’ve got to learn how to properly strike, grapple, utilize weapons, etc… basically learn to become proficient in every arsenal if you want to maximize your chances of survival/winning.

If someone who was far superior to you in terms of positioning and conditioning bit you, yeah you might flip out, but you’d only wind up burning yourself out from your wasted energy.

You’ve also gotta realize the psychological and physiological effects that a bite can have. For instance, if someone with a strong grip locked a pair of pliers onto your ear, nipple, nose etc… yeah, you might get pissed, but your body will instinctively react to the pain that you feel by complying.

This instinctive/unconscious compliance is why things like eye attacks, nerve attacks, body handles and biting are so effective. If I put my thumb into your carotid artery, you can try as hard as you want to resist allowing me to push you backwards, but you won’t be able to.

Same thing with a bite. If I bite onto your ear, you’re not going to be able to resist me using it to drag you to the ground, no matter how pissed you get.