T Nation

Anybody Switched from Liquidex to Arimidex Lately?


#1

Sensitive e test shows me at 31 and I’ve been on .25 MG EOD of liquidex for 2 weeks with some improvement. Depression is pretty much gone, energy is up some, heart palps have eased up some and I’m having sporadic morning wood but nothing spectacular, still no libido and hands and feet still swollen some and BP is still elevated and I’ve been pissing myself to death and have lost about 5 lbs since starting liquidex so I’m assuming I’m losing water weight. It seems I hit a plateau after 3 or 4 days. I’ve been taking .25 MG every day for 3 days now with no improvement. Has anybody used RUI liquidex lately and felt it had no potency? Is 2 weeks not long enough to see major improvement? My protocol is 50mg twice a week test cyp.


#2

There’s no way to know where your e2 is without labs. The .25mg every day is a very big dose for e2 of 31. You probably only need 1mg/week. Maybe you have gone too low with that dosing. Get labs done soon and adjust dose accordingly and let it time to settle before making more changes.


#3

I still have all my symptoms just to a lesser degree with the exception of depression so I don’t think I’m too low. My two main indicators are heart palps and swollen hands and feet. They are better but not 100%. I’ve been low before when the doc took me off T for 2 months and my e dropped to <6. I had major joint pain in my shoulders and elbows with any kind of strenuous activity for about 2 weeks. I want to stay on .25 every day for a few more days and then I’m planning on getting blood work sometime this week and see where I’m at but right now I’m more interested in whether anyone has switched from liquidex to arimidex recently and saw a big difference. I’m questioning the potency of the RUI stuff or maybe even the E test being off or possibly I just don’t respond very well to liquidex.


#4

We do not see anyone suggesting that their liquid anastrozole products are sub-dosed or that their lab results are out of line with expectations for a given dose. So you are not going to get any traction in that direction. So keep that in mind.

You are assuming that all of your problems are related to elevated E2 and are trying to bend the world to fit that view. You have to be open minded that there could be other things going on. Your history is in another thread so we can’t easily respond with insights from there. Please keep one thread.

The half life of anastrozole means that an increased dose is leading to building serum levels of the drug that will take a week to reach final values. Your approach and expectations of feeling something is deeply flawed. Your lab work will not reflect any known dosing and thus dose calculations are going to be bogus.


#5

I’m totally confused on why you think I’m trying to bend the world to fit my view when I’ve just started a little over 2 weeks ago to get my E under control. There very well could be other things going on, I’ve never said that was not possible, and I’ve never assumed E was my only problem but I’ve gotta start somewhere and since I’ve made progress with getting E down then why stop until I have E optimal?? I don’t believe in a shotgun approach to anything. I’m an industrial maintenance mechanic/electrician and my mind is wired for troubleshooting so I rarely if ever do a shotgun approach to anything. Get one thing at a time fixed then if there’s another problem find it and fix it.

I’ve already made progress twice with getting E under control so why would I stop and move on to something else before I know my E is optimal? I made a major stride when I went from 200 mg once every two weeks to 50 mg twice a week. My extreme anger disappeared in about a week after changing that, I would say due to E coming down but the endo wouldn’t test E so I can only assume. I’m now pretty much doctoring myself because I’ll never set foot in his office again. Now I’m on liquidex and all of my symptoms are better and the depression is gone completely so why would I not think E has a lot to do with it? Not to mention that every single low T forum puts great stress on E being “90%” of the problem with TRT.

Like I said in a few days I will get my E checked again and see where I’m at. If it’s optimal then I’ll move on to find the next problem but to say I’m bending the world to fit my view before I even know where my E is at after changing my protocol is quite confusing. I’m not trying to be a dick either, that sincerely confuses me as to why you would say that when I’ve just started this protocol. If my E looks good on the next bloodwork then I’ll move on to either checking other hormones or possibly give HCG a try, if I can ever get any sent to me. That’s partly why it’s taken so long to change anything, increasemyt has screwed me big time so I’ve been stuck not being able to try anything other than liquidex. I’ve been waiting for 6 weeks to get my T and HCG from them, haven’t had a reply from them since 4/19 and called today to get a refund. Avoid them at all cost, but that’s a whole nother story.

One more thing you might can clarify for me, your entire last paragraph. Are you saying it takes a week for liquidex to build up? If so friday will be a week since I started .25 mg every day and that’s when I was planning on doing blood work. I can even wait another week if I need to but why will my blood work not reflect any known dosing?


#6

If you are steady on a dose of anastrozole, its effects will be there after 7 days. Many feel a lot better in 7-10 days. Once T–>E2 production rates are steady, E2 removal by the liver will reach a new balance and that may take a bit longer to go steady state. Doing llabs when serum anastrozole levels and E2 levels are moving targets is not very useful for getting data that you can use to do any needed anastrozole dosing calculations.

Getting E2 too low can wreck mood, energy and libido. If E2 is too low and, depending on the lab, you get a result of E2<X, you have no idea where you are.

One typically does not feel effects of anastrozole in hours and cannot eval if a dose is right in a few days. One can feel great then crash as E2 keeps going lower.

Your new dose should be old dose 0.25mg EOD X 31/22 = .57mg EOD, where E2=22pg/ml is your therapeutic target.


#7

So it’s safe to say liquidex is legit. Drew blood last week, this was after 2 weeks of .25 mg EOD and then a week and a half of .25 ED. It definitely drove my T up which was 1052 and tanked my E2 which was 2.7. Hematocrit is also up at 52.9.

Here’s the weird part, I had zero joint pain with my E2 this low, last week I had more of a libido than I’ve had for 6 months, (still nowhere near what I’m use to but it was a good start) had wood every morning for the week and a half of .25 mg ED, not rock hard but decent, and I was getting hard as a rock when horny. Orgasms were also back thru the roof like they were in my younger days, energy was very good, no depression whatsoever and mood was wonderful. Friends and family members commented on how much better my mood was.

I quit taking the liquidex last friday when I got the lab results, by sunday my heart palps were back and I was just dead. I inject on sundays and wednesdays, heart palps disappeared a couples day after sunday’s shot. Sometimes I think the palps are from high E2 and sometimes they seem to be caused by lowish T. Maybe both maybe neither. Who knows at this point.

This entire week I’ve been dead, taking a 2 hour nap every afternoon when I get home from work and my entire body hurts and I feel like I’m 90 years old. I just woke up from a 2 hour nap and would like to go back to bed right now. I’m wondering if the reason I feel terrible this week is because my E2 is still dropping, but it seems like I should have felt like this last week too with my E that low. When the endo took me off trt for two months and my E dropped to <6 non sensitive (took about 2 weeks after the last shot for that to hit me) I had severe joint pain in my shoulders and elbows if I strained them but this time I haven’t felt that, just a general aching all over. I will remain off the liquidex for a couple more weeks and see how I feel and possibly get E2 labs again. Also, I woke up wednesday morning with my hands and feet swollen just like when my E is high and they have remained that way the rest of this week so I don’t understand that either unless it’s dehydration due to low E, but I’m not pissing more than normal.

Here’s one more interesting thing, I started taking liquidex on a saturday, took the first dose around noon. By 8 or 9 that night I was rather horny, almost like the old days. I had ran out of T (long story) so it had been a week since a full dose and 4 days since I had a half dose. I didn’t get another T shot til the following wednesday, pharmacy wouldn’t fill it till then. My theory is my T was lowish so my E was probably lower than what it usually is and that first dose knocked my E down to where I need to be for that one day and from then on I just kept dropping my E too low. That tells me that E is my problem and it doesn’t take it being very high to mess me up big time. So at this point the only thing I know to do is wait for my E to come back up too high, which will be indicated by depression coming back, get labs to confirm that and then take one dose of liquidex and see what happens and work with it from there.

My E seems to jump quickly so maybe I won’t have to wait too long,and here’s why I think that. When the endo took me off trt for 2 months he checked my T and E at the end of that 2 months. It was T 418 and E 13.8 I think, non sensitive. He put me back on trt, got a 200 mg shot, the first two days I had good morning wood, good mood and an inkling of a libido, 4 days later and the depression hit me like a ton of bricks and stayed that way for a week. It seems I’m really sensitive to where my E level needs to be but I’m not gonna give up til I find my sweet spot.


#8

I forgot to mention, this week I’ve had zero libido, no morning wood and it’s a chore to get fully hard if I get there at all.


#9

Yep my E is already back up. Woke up Saturday morning with my hands so swollen I could barely close them, I barely had enough energy to walk or talk all day. I’ve been extremely tired the last few days, zero morning wood for over a week now, depression is starting to come back also. It amazes me that being just a lil out of what yall call optimal range has so much effect on me. So I started on .25mg every 3 days on Saturday so we’ll see how that goes. Also have some hcg coming.


#10

Started hcg 4 days ago. Woke up the morning after the first injection pissed off at the world and have been that way ever since. I guess hcg has raised my e and that’s all it has done. I’m gonna give it a couple weeks and if I don’t see any improvement I’m most likely gonna be done with trt. It makes absolutely no sense why I felt like superman for the first 2 months when I started trt and have felt like total shit ever since no matter what I do. I’m not gonna stick my self with needles several times a week when I feel the same off of trt.