T Nation

Any Poker Players Here?


Anybody else here love playing poker. My absolute favourite game of all time, let alone poker game is NL hold'em, but have been known to dabble with 7card, and 5card stud ocassionaly.
I much prefer real games, but play a bit online also(full tilt mostly). Anybody else here play whether for the money or for the love of the game.


I like poker, especially NL hold'em. I used to play online a lot, usually with Full Tilt Poker until I came to the realization that they are rigged. I usually go to Vegas and play out there about once a year. I do plan on playing in the WSOP one year


Do you plan on winning your seat or paying $10,000 for a seat, i.e. how good are you?
And why do you say they are rigged?


I'd like to know this as well. My friend has played professionally online for the last several years and made a good living at it.

I'm guessing you just had a few bad runs and called hacks on the system.


Yes i play at irisheyespoker.com and paddypower.com

make a good living for a student off it, that and betting on football (easy money)


Ya, I'm in the exact same boat man. Student playing as much poker as I can, because I love the game, and can be easy to make money off it. Never tried paddypowerpoker yet. Must give it a go.


I used to be crazy on it but I lost more money than I made so I quit.


I have a group of friends who I play regularly. As far as the online sites being rigged, there were two high profile sites that were compromised and people lost millions. I can't remember them off of the top of my head, I think one was ultimatebet. I'm pretty sure those responsible weren't prosecuted because they agreed to show how they breached the system.


I would probably pay thr $10k buy in plus buy into a couple of other tournaments taht go on befrot eh main event. I am about as goo a poker player as anyone who knows how to play but does not play regularly.

As far as being rigged the random number generators are not random. There are far too many monster hands and suckouts. You have to remember that these sites make money through the rakes so the more thay can get people to commit to a pot the more they will make. I noticed, and many other have too, that flops contain a disportionate amount of pairs, 2 suited cards and straight draws that drive a lot of action. You will also win more when you first join a site than after you have been playing for a while. Try joining Full Tilt Poker. When you first start you will think you are the best player ever, can't lose, but after a while you will see your luck change and will fall victim to many suckouts.

Plus if you do win and live in the US it is very hard to get your money out

If anybody knows of a good legitimate site that comes close to the play you would see in real life I'd be back online in a sec.


i play, but i'm too broke to play for money, lol


I am a player. I normally hit the card rooms one or two times per week. NL Hold'em is probably my favorite game, if only because it is the game you can most frequently find and get into.

I'm obviously not a pro, but I play well enough and often enough to nicely supplement my income (roughly 12K from poker this past year- best month, +2030, worst month, -560).

I normally play 1-2 no limit on Saturday afternoons, and 2-5 no limit on wednesday nights. The card room I'm at has a 2-5 game where the max buy in is 1K rather than $500 like in most casinos. It plays a bit more like a 5-5 game, and people always straddle it up. A bit more action and finesse, but if you're have a hot streak you can make a killing.

When I go to casinos I'll play 2-5 mostly, but every now and then I like the 5-10 game at the trop in AC. I've sat as high as 10-25 no limit, but that is a big game and I a just not emotionally detached enough from my money to play as coldly as I should, which interferes pretty badly.

Whenever I just want to make quick cash, I will go down to Atlantic City and play 7-stud. If you are patient and know the game and are willing to play Tight, Aggressive poker, you seriously can't lose. Guys will call you down with nothing when you have the nuts.

I do noticed that guys who play 7-stud in local card rooms (not casinos) are awesome. It's just 70 year old guys who have been playing for 50 years and they're good. In casinos, though, it's mostly dudes who are tired of waiting for the No Limit Hold'em list to empty so they sit stud for a while.

As for online play, I have heard that Bodog was less than random. I unfortunately heard it well after I stopped playing there, but thankfully I made more than I lost while playing. I still hang out on Full Tilt from time to time but less so recently. Just too many suckout and insane hands. I'd rather play live, I tend to do a lot better.

What limits are you guys normally playing?


Hi, I play poker online and live for a living, your statement is representative of the general paranoia most people have about online play.

To start it's not a random number generator, it's a continuous shuffle system. That means anytime a card is dealt the deck is constantly being shuffled. What determines the turn card is the timing of the last action on the flop and so on.

As far as noticing more "action boards"(which paired boards are not btw)and "suckouts" compared to live play, you notice that because online you are seeing HUNDREDS of hands an hour. Live, you seeing maybe 30-40 hands per hour. Your sample is much much larger online and thus you are of course going to see more oddities due to that.

Online play is also much harder due to better players being more prevalent, live games are a joke by comparison.

It isn't rigged, there is no motivation to rig the site, if they ever got caught there is sufficient competition for everyone playing that site to leave.


This is very interesting. Can you explaion more about how it works, or (outside of just saying "google it") point me to a place where discussion of how this system came about takes place?

I'm really interested to know.

I also agree with your point that, generally speaking, the good players online are far and away better than most live players.

Great online players have a completely different understanding of the game.


I play online at pokerstars -- mostly NL holdem and Omaha hi/lo. I try to get in a couple hours a day and I've been building a bank role for about six months now. I've had my ups and downs, but for the past couple months, things have been going really well. I'll also play live games from time to time, but I much prefer the speed of online games.

I just wanted to chime in on the issue of online games being rigged. I couldn't agree with travacolypse more. Suckouts and magic river cards happen, and it sucks when you're on the losing end, but it only seems to happen online more because of the number of hands/hour. I'll play a few tables at a time, each seeing between 80 and 105 hands an hour. So in two hours of play, I'll see between 400 and 600 hands. Play enough hands and you see some really sick shit happen -- and it happens fairly often. It's just a numbers game...


Wow, guys this is very interesting to hear. Ok a random number generator where the deck is continously shuffled between hands, and between pre-flop, flop, turn and river is somewhat odd but still in my opinion within fair play.

However if what you are suggesting is true, that the card(s) drawn at these stages in the game are somewhat determined by the action at the table thusfar, that is extremely hard to believe. Are you suggesting the probability of a card drawn on the river is affected by what cards are shown already, what cards a player has, and also how long a player has been with a site? Jesus, I find this very hard to believe, and I would be highly disturbed if it were the case.

I myself have never actually deposited any money yet, as I have no access to a credit card. I've always played freerolls and stuff, and have made money from those and then used the winnings to enter real money SNGs, and am still making money off that. However, I have not attempted to withdraw any of this money yet, and some of the comments above lead me to believe that this will be no easy feat?


Yes there is an awful amount of suckouts, and I get pissed off when this happens in live games and/or online. But, hey that's poker. And that's what I always put it down to.

Are you just saying it pisses you off when some retard kid goes in with the beer hand against your rockets and hits seven, seven, deuce on the flop, or are you also agreeing with the point that these sites may be rigged to make the most cash possible?


Nope it wont lol, quite hard to withdraw money without a credit card !


I was thinking of a wire transfer or something!


I want to belive you. In fact I had made the same argument as you did above about no motivation to rig until someone who, during a online tournament, was a victim of one of my major suckouts, pointed out a few inconsistencies to me that I investigated further. Online sites make money two ways. 1 - rakes during table games and 2 - a percent of tournament buy ins.

With rakes the site makes more money by creating more action and higher pots per hand. The higher the pot the higher the rake. So there is an incentive to juice up the hole cards and flops to create more agressive betting.

With tourneys the site makes more money if they can shorten the tournament by knocking out as many players as quick as possible. They do this by rigging the hand to favor the big stacks. The big stacks are the ones that are the beneficiary of the suckouts during tournaments.

Just play and watch. See how many times you beat a larger stack in heads up play even if you have better hole cards or the best hand after the flop.

I have no "real" evidence of this just my own personal observatons and reading some blogs about this issue. But it has just made me more aware that these sites may not be as legit as many think; so I am using caution until I find a site that can show evidence of fairness. If you can recommend a site I would try it out if you truly believe the game play is legit.

I am also concerned about US players being able to get there winnings deposited or mailed to them. If anyone has good experience with that, let us know.


I play online at FullTilt, just the $2 matrix SNGs, really. Not as often as I should (I'd like to get better), but hey, I can't let it interfere with my sleep for the gym :slight_smile:

My friend plays professionally, and while I've never discussed with him the exact mechanism of his withdrawals, it's his only source of income, so obviously he's been able to make withdrawals. He plays on FTP and Stars, I believe.

Any sources taht you guys enjoy reading? I've read one of Hellmuth's books, and am reading Negreneau's now, hoping to get harrington on hold em for christmas this week. Any online sources? 2+2 and pocketfives seem to be the poker world's equivalent of bb.com