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any food ideas...ko?

I FINALLY get to start bulking next week, now that I have a six pack and all I get to lose it, haha, but any ideas on carb sources besides veggies? I havent eaten carbs in a while but i got the obivious, oatmeal and veggies, but what about taco/tortilla shells, what is the GI rating on them? And what would be a good healthy way to make homeade pizza sans cheese or maybe a little parmesan, tomatos/basil/shrimp/roasted garlic was what im thinking, but what kinda pizza shell/dough? Im trying to eat massive eating so I dont want to combine P+F…stats 6 foot 185…want to bulk to about 205 with minimal fat gain…

There are a lot of different ways to make homemade pizzas, but either way most doughs will be higher on the gi index. If you really want to stay healthy why not just take your aforementioned ingredients and make pasta sautes with them, or if you want you can try making your own pizza dough which would be healthier than the store products.

I am definetly up for making my own dough, I really want to make sure its low GI though so I can eat it often and not have to worry about it, and if you can believe this…I dont like pasta, haha I am 100 percent Italian but i just dont like it anymore,…

I don’t know if links post but if it does try the link below. Pizza-Pedia has some descent recipes. If it doesn’t post or you don’t like those recipes, I can post one of my own for pizza crusts.

http://dir.yahoo.com/ Society_and_Culture/ Food_and_Drink/Cooking/ Recipes/Specific_Dishes/ Pizza/Pizza_Dough/

RenegadeChef, you have got to post your pizza dough recipe. I love pizza, but boy is it hard to make when follow the massive eating guidelines. I try and make it a protein+carb meal but the fat is just hard to avoid(sauce, cheese, dough) but post your recipe! thanks.

Uh, the sauce isn’t fatty - you could certainly limit or avoid the cheese and add your own meats and still use regular dough.

This is the recipe I use most often and should fit into your P+C meal. I left it in bulk which means it will produce 5 10oz crusts. I didn’t convert it to a single serving because if you convert it some ingredients come out to 1/10 of an ounce which is a pain to measure.
CRUST/
Water 18 fluid oz
Yeast 1/2oz
Olive Oil 2 fluid oz
Hard wheat flour 28oz
Salt 1/2 oz
Cornmeal (used to prevent sticking when baking)

Make sure you add the ingredients in the order they are listed.
1)Combine h2o, yeast, and oil in mixing bowl let stand until dissolved.
2)Add flour and salt, mix until smooth.
3)Cover the bowl and let stand 75minutes(activates yeast).
4)You can then divide the dough into 5 smaller sections for individual pizzas.
5)Place the sections on a baking sheet or counter top and proof for 1 hour.
6)Re-press the dough then shape the dough into pizza crusts and allow to proof another 30minutes.
7)Then add your toppings and bake(cooking time will vary depending on your oven)

The initial crust making process is lengthy, but you will get the best results by following it. It will also allow you to par-bake the extra crusts for 5-10 minutes then you can refrigerate or even freeze for future use depending on when you plan on using them.

Now to make them fall into the P+C meal and eliminate as much fat as possible, I would recommend not using a modified red sauce or white sauce and not an actual pizza sauce. For red sauce I would recommend combining your toppings (veggies and shrimp or chicken)into a sauce pan or saute pan and season with salt/pepper/garlic/oregano/basil or what ever seasons you prefer. Then puree a couple of tomatoes in the blender and add it to the sauce pan this will prevent the topping from drying out and make a modified sauce. Then cover the pizza crust with the toppings and bake.

You can also use a white sauce by brushing the crust with olive oil and then adding your toppings. This will give you more fat than the red version listed above though.

If you need any clarification let me know. If this is to complicated, I can modify and repost an easier version.

boxer al, like you i love pizza, but massive eating is a bitch to do it with, I was thinking, egg beaters in the dough, low-fat cheese (just a little bit), shrimp/roasted chicken breast topping, and a lot of tomatoes and basil/oregano…but I am not for sure on how to make the dough and have it taste good, anyone else got any good massive eating recipes while I am plannin my bulking meals for the next six months?

Corn flour is verty high Gi, and as far as flour tortillasgo, look ones made out of whole wheat flour. Real tortillas also have a lot of fat in them, so watch out for it.

As for the pizza dough I have yet to find a low carb dough that does not use soy flour. Stay away froom those low carb mixes, they also contain soy flour. The problem is that when you grind a grain into flour, you raise the GI. I am still, looking though and will keep you posted.

On another note, you can have hamburgers. Trader Joe’s has lamb patties w/ <5g Fat, so they fit in nicely with Massive Eating if coupled with some whole wheat buns.

After lots of discussions with my coach who I plan to not reveal since he is well known here and does not want to answer many questions about this idea for me. We have concluded to follow the massive eating protocol with maintance calories as usual but now instead follow a Zone (40,30,30) diet on monday, wedsnday, and fridays. So, the pizza is no longer an issue as the sauce and mozzarella cheese are acceptable. I actually plan on having one tonight which breaksdown like this: dough(fat-4, pro-8,cho-48), sauce-alfredo mushroom(fat-7, pro-4,cho-14), chicken breast(f-3,cho-1,pro-32). This is like a dream come true to me. Thanks for the recipe for the dough, after this last pie I will actually make some tommorrow. I’ll let you all know how it turns out and tastes on monday. Ko, as a fellow boxer what do you think of my diet approach? the reason for the zone on those days is because those are my main training days.

If your coach posts here regularly, then he must know his stuff. The only comment that I can make about your diet is that you need to get to know your body. I don’t know what your experience level is, but once you have a few fights under your belt, you will learn to fine tune your diet, and eventually it will become instinct. I myself can tolerate a tremendous amount of carbs, with little effect, as long as I stay active, so I do not really worry about it. About the only adjustment I have to make is no beer :-(.

The idea behind eating a zone style diet during practice days is to simply eat carb. during all my meals, with the massive eating protocol I was just not consuming enough CHO going into practice. With the zone I can have the CHO and the essential fats all in the same meal.

Out of curiosity how did you arrive at the 40/30/30 plan vs. other macronutrient ratios that are more often used by sports nutritionists such as 55/25/20 and 50/30/15 for boxers and other ATP-CP/Glycolytic athletes during the season and pre-season training? I’m just curious as to what you think if any advantages the 40/30/30 gives you over the other more commonly implemented ratios?

The idea is based on maintaining weight as well as lean body mass. I weigh currently 152 pounds at 5-6%bf (fight at 147), with that in mind. We think the amino amount is just not enough to maintain or have a balanced nitrogen state. also, with a 55% cho ratio yes perhaps you never really use up all the glycogen but you never really have enough aminos to securely close the door on amino conversion to glucose. My maintance is about 3000-3500cal. a day, which makes it really hard to do with massive eating, but with a zone style I can eat about 700cal per meal very easily, without having to feel full for four-five hours like massive eating. The ratio we felt was well balanced. Hey, coach and I are always open to new ideas and discuss nutrition frequently as we feel it’s perhaps the #1 principle of priority for an athlete. So please let us know if you have a better plan…

I see your point regarding your current dietary requirements. However, I feel that the a 50-35-15 ratio would be better suited to your current situation. That is 55%carbs, 35%protein and 15%fat. Based on 3500kcal diet that comes out to 1750kcal or 438grams carbs, 1225kcal or 306grams protein, and 525kcal or 58grams fat. Which at your body weight of 152lbs is still over 2grams of protien/lb of bodyweight. This also ensures that you have plenty of carbs for glycogen replenishment due to the high energetic demands and energetic expenditures of your training. Take into consideration that my nutrition background and advice is not based on the Massive eating schedule so that is why it varies and that is why the nutrient ratio is different than what you are used to. Now as far as meal planning and nitrogen balance. You definitely need to maintain a positive nitrogen balance which this plan will allow you to do. You want to eat every 2-3 hours to replenish amino acids, and glycogen among other things. You also want to plan your meals so that when you need them you have enough amino acids and glucose available and the timing of veggies high in antioxidants is also critical to maximize the uptake of free radicals that are released via chemical process throught the day. Take your training day into consideration, and break your meal plans down accordingly. I don’t know what your training day is like so I can’t give you an adequate example right now. But plan on 5-6 meals a day and no they wont all be 500-600kcal per meals, there are certain meals depending on training that you will want higher in certain macronutrients and kcal then other meals. So it’s not as simple as dividing your meals up into 500-600kcal each which is pretty much what a 40-30-30 ratio will do because one of the primary factors of the zone is that each meal is as closely balanced to the said ratio as possible for the diet to be effective. There are so many factors that go into designing and implementing a sport specific nutrition program, I have only touched upon a few of my suggestions and reasonings. Also take into consideration that just like your training is periodized your nutrition plan is the same. Depending on your current energy expenditures and requirements you should adjust the macronutrient ratio of your diet accordingly, to ensure that during your current phase the micro and macro nutrients are available in the amounts that are required.

Chef,

I like your idea, maybe cuz I like them Carbs too much to not have them. I will try it out. These next two weeks are critical for me as I need to shed about three pounds, I will start using T2 followed t2-pro for two weeks each. But I cannot drop calories because I cannot slow down in training, everytime I drop calories or drop carbs I do not react too well to that. Thanks a lot renegadechef you’ve been of great help. I do appreciate it.

Good luck, let me know if you need anything else.

Fellas, started liftin on thursday just to get started and get an idea of weights for next week. I also have lowered calories to be at 3000. So far so good. Oh and renegadechef about the pizza dough I just had one hell of a pizza as soon as I got home from boxing with a bit of weights. It went like this pizza dough, 1/4cup alfredo sauce and half 1/4cup ragu meat sauce, 2/3cup fat free cheese blend, can of tuna. The macronutrient breakdown was Fat-20g, carbs-80, prot.-58. total kcal was 718! and I still need about 350 calories to get to 3000 before the night ends. and by the way I got home from practice at 9pm and finished eating at around 10pm which is right now. Anyways, let me know what you think? thanks a bunch fellas for all the help not only on nutrition but also with my weights routine confusion.

Sounds good, the only thing you might want to keep an eye on is using the pizza as an immediate post-workout meal. The fats and protein will do a good job at slowing down carbs gastroc emtying and glucose absorption which may not be what you want,esepecially if you feel sluggish after your workout and throuhgout your meal. Then you may want to use the carb drink after the gym and then eat 30min after the carb workout. But if that is not a problem then it sounds like pizza will be a perfect meal to finish off your day.