T Nation

Any Doubt What We're Up Against?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
vroom:

I can assure you if we (in the US) were living under a regime as brutal as Sadams obviously was, I would be thrilled to have a foreign government come in (temporarily) remove the dictator and restore order.

The people of Iraq (most) I bet are quite grateful. Don’t expect CBS, CNN or the New York Times to report it.
[/quote]

Vroom, you talk about the problem of point of view, but I don’t see how kicking Saddam out did anything to piss anyone off except for the corrupt bastards who were profiting from him. And how are we “stomping” on anybody’s traditions? If you’re talking about the tradition of brutality and abuse that’s been perpetrated by the dictator and his cronies, then… well… darn. Too F-ing bad. The rest of their lifestyle is up to them to determine. That’s called freedom and personal choice. So tell me again, how are we the bad guys in this?

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
vroom:

I can assure you if we (in the US) were living under a regime as brutal as Sadams obviously was, I would be thrilled to have a foreign government come in (temporarily) remove the dictator and restore order.

The people of Iraq (most) I bet are quite grateful. Don’t expect CBS, CNN or the New York Times to report it.

Vroom, you talk about the problem of point of view, but I don’t see how kicking Saddam out did anything to piss anyone off except for the corrupt bastards who were profiting from him. And how are we “stomping” on anybody’s traditions? If you’re talking about the tradition of brutality and abuse that’s been perpetrated by the dictator and his cronies, then… well… darn. Too F-ing bad. The rest of their lifestyle is up to them to determine. That’s called freedom and personal choice. So tell me again, how are we the bad guys in this?[/quote]

Loth,
While many of the Iraqi people rejoiced at the toppling of Saddam, that does not mean the same thing as being grateful for having tanks in your street, soldiers bursting into your home guns blazing at night, no power or water, and family members killed by a bomb being dropped on your home. How would you feel if some or all of those things happened to you? It’s easy to sit in America and call them ‘ungrateful’, but there are reasons for the Iraqi people being pissed off. I would consider losing Saddam but also losing my home and family a poor trade-off.
Maybe America aren’t the bad guys in this, but bad things are happening to innocent people, whether mistakenly or not, and that pisses people off.

You guys are so single minded. I’m not saying the US is the bad guy in this. No wonder you guys think I’m anti-American or something stupid like that.

I’m saying that when you impose your will on others, it pisses them off. I’m saying that though the decisions were made with good faith and good reason, it doesn’t mean people won’t be pissed off.

As for the current situtaton in Iraq, it really isn’t what I’m talking about.

I’m hoping it turns out with the Iraqi citizens on our side due to the brutal and violent actions of the terrorists. Car bombs are whatnot are claiming a lot of Iraqi lives. They are going to start getting pissed off at this eventually as well if they aren’t already.

Hopefully the fanatic mindset of the terrorists will prove to be their own downfall.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
ILOVEGWBUSH3 wrote:
Heard of the killing fields? 2 million Vietnamese slaughtered. Why? Because America suddenly embraced peace.

[/quote]
Not even remotley close.
The Killing fields were not in Vietnam, but in Cambodia. What’s more, the perpetrators in this atrocity were the AMERICAN supported Khmer Rouge Led by Pol Pot. That’s right these murderers recieved our blessing because they were not communist. It took America “embracing peace” for the Viet Cong to stop the genocide.

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

Not even remotley close.
The Killing fields were not in Vietnam, but in Cambodia. What’s more, the perpetrators in this atrocity were the AMERICAN supported Khmer Rouge Led by Pol Pot. That’s right these murderers recieved our blessing because they were not communist. It took America “embracing peace” for the Viet Cong to stop the genocide.[/quote]

I may have spoken a little too quickly. But we didn?t support Pol Pot. In fact an American backed general removed Sihanouk from power, because he supported the Viet Cong.

Sihanouk started supporting Pol Pot to get back into power.

The Khmer Rouge is actually defined as Red, or Communist Cambodians. So it is wrong to say they were not communists.

Khmer Rouge was supported by China along with the Viet Cong. Pol Pot actually fought with the Viet Cong until he started feeling that the Vietnamese only supported the Vietnamese.

The communists in Vietnam and the Khmer Rouge are connected, but after the war they started having border disputes, and Pol Pot took his xenophobia to the extreme. That is when he started killing all the educated people (yeah, very smart,) and anyone with glasses, and took people into the fields, out of the cities.

The deaths were Cambodian, and Vietnamese mostly. I shouldn?t have implied that it was only Vietnamese.

But still if we didn?t leave, this would not have happened. He couldn?t take power until we left Cambodia when we did.

Vietnam was a failure in many ways.