T Nation

Anti-war protesters should be (I dunno. Come up with something)

I mean it’s OK if you protest before we went to war but now that we are at war I think the people should be united to support the troops.

Now they are just a nuisance. What do you think you can acheive? You think the government will stop the war just because you protest?

Additionally, they are causing problems for the police and emergency workers have enough on their hands trying to ensure public safety and god forbid should a terrorist attack occur. Plus they are making themselves targets for the terrorists.

IDIOTS!

They should be shown the videos of 9/11. “We will never forget” I didn’t and won’t but they sure in hell have. It blows my mind to see these people out there during a time like this. Don’t get me wrong I hate war, who doesn’t. Seeing people die, get wounded, etc. makes me sick. But seeing it happen to MY people, people I love kills me. I would never stand aside and let innocent people die or get hurt. If you do that your a coward. These people want to “talk” or “make a deal”!!! FUCKIN talk!! Are you crazy? They’re killing us because we’re Americans. AMERICANS! Does that make any sense? Hell no. You can’t talk to people like this. The only thing you can do is get rid of them by all means necessary. Using military tactics. Welcome to the real protesters!!

 Before they had a true motive - to avert a war.

 Now they're more than just a nuisance - they're disrupting normal life, the economy, giving the enemy hope and will to fight, and putting our tax dollars to deal with these idiots by requiring use of police force, firefighters, people to clean up the streets.

  Before I could still see how they were patriotic and possibly watching out for the welfare of our boys fighting in Iraq.

  Now I think they're a bunch of purely unpatriotic idiots who are risking ore soldier lives, hurting the econoy and the country as a whole, and preventing the people of Iraq fro achieving their much desired liberation from a fucking biggot of an oppressor. No good will come out of this now. The war IS underway, and WILL be finished wether you like it or not. You dont have to agree with it, but you have to watch out for the welfare of our troops and country - that is, if you still want to be known as patriotic in the true meaning of the wrod

Human shields!

First off, I am not saying this is morally equivalent. It is just an example.

Devil’s advocate: Let’s suppose our government decided that all orphanages should be torched, orphans included. They start doing it, despite protests. Should people just say “oh well, it’s underway, nevermind”? No, people would continue to protest, and rightly so.

Now, as I said before, I don’t think they’re morally equivalent, and I do think we have good reason to be in Iraq. But many of the protesters don’t think so. They see it, rightly or wrongly, as a barbaric invasion of a sovereign nation. No, they shouldn’t be blocking bridges, and they shouldn’t be breaking the law with their protests. But I have a hard time with the whole “shut up and go home” idea, even if I don’t believe the same things they do. It would be, ahem, a free country.

I disagree. I think it shows the world that much of “us” or “U.S.” still don’t agree with what is going on. I don’t agree with this war, and I realize that I can’t stop it, but I think it is important to make my opinion known.

I really don’t see what is wrong with making your opinion known, that is what this country is based on.

P.S. I’m not against the individual soldiers, that would be stupid. I’m against the leadership and desision making of this country.

I agree, A7.

And ditto what BrownBomber said.

IMO, there’s two types of protestor. One is a true protestor who is really against the war, understands the issues, understands the geography of the Middle East (you know, can actually point Iraq out on a globe), understands our country’s history. This type of protestor is peaceful, articulate, and encourages the same. This type of protestor I have absolutely no problem with.

The second type of protestor is an uninformed idiot, who is only protesting because it is a reason to “speak out”, to rebel for a day or two, or more. This protestor breaks the law by sitting in the middle of a highway, smashing windows of businesses or government buildings, setting fires, spitting and throwing rocks at police offcers. They’re usually young, obnoxious college students or dropouts who have no conception of a job, responsibilty, or respect for any type of authority (including that of their own parents). They understand nothing about why they’re protesting.

Unfortunately, these types are often treated exactly the same as the first type of protestor I mentioned. For the most part, the police do nothing to either. Even if there are arrests, rarely, and I do mean rarely, does a protestor, even a violent one, see a conviction or jail time. The fault of a horrendous judicial system.

How do I know this? I’m a police officer in a large east coast city and have experienced it firsthand the past few days and throughout my career, especially during the Republican National Convention in 2000.

One more thing about the right to protest. The First Amendment makes the provision for “the right of the people peaceably to assemble”. It mentions nothing of “civil disobedience”, a fancy term used by protestors which basically means let’s just break the law!

I see that protests are occurring all over the world, and I’m not going to speak for other countries because each is unique with regard to protests (I think some actually encourage it). But I’ll speak for the United States. It’s become an issue it was never meant to become. From minor law-breaking to absolutely riotous in certain situations, with civil authorities (police departments) afraid to act because of lawsuits. It’s a disgrace.

I must agree with icbart.
When you meet a person who can present an intelligence counter-point to your point of view. Listen you might learn something.
Unfortuately, most of the protestors I have seen make the people on “Jay Walking” seem smart. With this group you smile and nod your head. It is dangerous to debate the emotional and mislead. And it it also a waste of time. I would rather be training.

Anti-war protests are really what we use to call in the military OBE (Overcome by Events). I believe the smarter individuals in this group should now be focusing their attention on how to help the Iraqs, Kurds and other people involved recover from this war as quickly as possible.
So if you are against the war for what ever reason, then volunteer to help one of the relief agencies. Give blood to the Red Cross, if you don’t have much time. But do something positive.
Best of Luck.

Here’s a pretty good article sent to me a while back, by a friend that’s over there now. Hope he’s kicking ass and taking names.The article is by a retired Command Sergeant Major who spent 30 years in uniform in the service of our great country and still continues to serve as DOD civilian. Sorry it’s a little long but it’s worth the read. God Bless.

Dancing in the Streets
Kill Americans. That’s the mantra. Kill them anywhere you can and anyhow you can. They burn our flag, disrespect our culture, disrespect our President and detest everything for which we stand. It started with the Islamic fanatics, but it’s a mantra being acted out everyday by those who claim to be our civilized friends. Just sit and ponder that thought for a minute. Then think back to 911 and recall the images. Recall the crumbling Twin Towers, the burning Pentagon and the images from the Middle East of people dancing with joy in the streets. Recall the images you’ve seen many times of Mullahs with seventh century minds teaching children that their path to glory is paved with dead Americans. Our own media glorifies homicide bombers by referring to them as suicide bombers implying that they’ve just completed a noble deed of sacrifice. They call terrorists “fighters” which is a term reserved for one with a noble cause. And what’s their cause? Kill Americans. They are criminals and murderers as is Saddam Hussein. Hate for America is necessary for them, all of them, because our system works where theirs fails and they cannot accept that. We are the fighters. We have the noble cause.

Many of our celebrities (made so from our attention and money) call our action to prevent future attacks on America unjust and immoral. I’m saddened a little more today. I really did like the Dixie Chicks music until their lead singer stood on a stage in a foreign country and told a foreign audience that she is ashamed of her President. Well Chicks, I’m ashamed of you and the only Wide Open Spaces I can think of now are between your lead singer’s ears. Our left leaning politicians including some former presidents are joining the celebrities. President, “I-didn’t-inhale-and-I-never-had-sex-with-that- woman” Slick Willie Clinton, who is still trying to figure out the meaning of the word is and who’s lack of spine and Cruise Missile diplomacy created the current situation is joining the feeding frenzy. Advancing the party once again has a higher priority than securing the country. Sad isn’t it. No, it’s a disgrace. They are so mindless that they do not know what their statements mean to the soldiers sitting in the desert and to their families. Just as soldiers didn’t understand Jane Fonda, they don’t understand these pinheads. They’ll do the job as always, then they’ll come home and then they’ll remember. They’ll remember with their wallets and their votes. They’ll remember who helped them and they’ll remember who helped kill Americans.

I guess what most bothers me is the piling on. Terrorists kill Americans and along with them, every robe-wearing fanatic in the Middle East wants to kill Americans and destroy Israel. To help us out, our civilized European friends call our President a cowboy and our direct approach to dealing with threats as arrogant. I believe saying that you’ll veto any resolution from the US no matter what it contains, better defines arrogance. It’s interesting that I see Jacques lips moving, but hear Saddam’s words coming out of his mouth. What really makes me ill is that I sense strongly that some of our friends and some of our elite citizens and politicians want to see a failure. Yes, they do and it’s sick. We have citizens and politicians that would dance in the streets with joy at an American failure in Iraq. Of course, an American failure in Iraq means many lost American lives. Maybe they can’t see that far into the future.

I find it interesting that the axis of weasels, France, Germany, China and Russia admit that Iraq is responding to inspectors, albeit in dribbles, only because they are under threat of a US led military strike. They admit this, but do you see any of their military forces helping to apply the pressure. Then they offer that we can contain them, but you don’t see them providing anything but a roadblock to that. Certainly, they are not providing any troops. They repeatedly state that the inspectors haven’t found any weapons of mass destruction or proof of them. When contemplating this, I break it down into its simplest form. That is, do I believe what Colin Powell tells me or do I believe what the Butcher of Baghdad tells me. I do agree with the weasels on one point, however, we need more inspectors to get the job done. Our President agrees with that too, that’s why he has 250,000 of them standing ready to carry out a thorough and unconditional inspection of Iraq. The weasels fear our inspection. Here’s why. Saddam signed billions of dollars in oil contracts with the Chinese, French and Russians all payable with the lifting of UN sanctions. It’s documented that French companies have been dealing with Iraq and sold them spare parts for their Mirage fighters within the past few months. Some of those fighters we know were equipped to spray chemicals. The Chinese provided them with chemicals needed to make fuel for long-range missiles. The Germans sold them the mobile bio-labs along with other multi-purpose equipment. The Iraqis are great bureaucrats, we’re told, who keep great records. These records should prove interesting.

Our friends question that since Saddam hasn’t done anything to anyone lately why should we do anything to him now? That’s an interesting argument. It’s like telling Mike Tyson you punch me first. I’m sorry folks, but the first punch was thrown and we took it right on the chin. Our job, and our President fortunately sees it clearly, is to remove the potential for future punches. The appeasers ask, but does that mean that later we have to take on Iran and others? No, I expect they’ll get the message. But, what about North Korea cries Chicken Little? North Korea has been doing what it’s now doing for years. Kim Jong-il is not very bright, but he is probably not suicidal. He can fire all the missile tests he wants, but he knows that if he attacks anyone he’s history. He’s just trying to get attention, and the method he is using is the only one he knows how to use. He’s a dictator like our friend in the desert. Deceit, fear and intimidation are the extent of his communication skills. North Korea is contained, but they’ll get the message also. That message, thanks to the focused leadership of our President, is that you cannot threaten America - period. Don’t you find it interesting that our friends and some of our own politicians insist that we deal with Iraq through the United Nations and then from the other side of their faces say that North Korea is an American problem. I hope all of you have a clearer picture of how this works than I do. What I do know is that the UN has failed more than it’s succeeded. Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan? It failed, because it failed to act as it is now failing to act.

I’m no great predictor of the future, but I do try to make my way through all of the news reports and listen to all of the experts that parade across the news channels. My thought is that the summit in the Azores is the final war and aftermath planning of the leaders with the backbone to enforce the World’s resolution. They’ll pass out two ultimatums. One for our friends in the UN and another for our friend in the desert. I also predict that when I sit down to my computer next Sunday morning and try to think through what’s transpired, we’ll be conducting a thorough, unconditional inspection of Iraq. I also predict some dancing in the streets by Iraqi citizens and some major embarrassment to our friends, some politicians and much of Hollywierd.

Godspeed to our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines.

Copyright ? JD Pendry, 2003, All Rights Reserved

Most of them are idiots and should be jailed. One of them on TV said, “The war only benefits Corporate America.” I wanted to ask them, “List ten Fortune 500 that’ll benefit from this war and tell me how this war will impact their bottom line, show me the new valuation of their market cap, and show me how much of it is attributed to the war, and how much the shareholders gained out of it.” I bet they can’t answer not a single question. And I can name plenty of companies that are hurting from the war.

First, educated about what exactly is going on so they can actually back up their actions with some reason (impossible though).

Secondly, flogged. Hard.

I’ll make it simple: They should be brought to Iraq to tour their prisons.

That’s all. It’s so funny how they claim they are so worried about civiliam life, but all of the reports from Iraqi’s who have escaped detail out tortures and human atrocities that I don’t want to even think about. These guys are making Hitler look like the snuggle fabric softner bear.

Just one trip to see the human grinders (reported by a former prisoner - they ground someone up and basically flushed him down the toilet), the acid baths (another report says they essentially disolved someone), or the rape chapter (a former body double for Hussein’s son was told that if he didn’t act as a double that his sister would be taken to one. Men also have their women raped as a form of punishment) and we’d all pick up arms against this monster. Anyone who says they are against this war because of civilian casulties is chosing the wrong side.

The problem is that so many of today’s students are protesting just to protest. They saw it in the 60’s and it seemed cool so they want to be cool and rebel too. They aren’t just protesting the war, they are protesting anything they deem as “establishment.” They are just malcontents and can never, ever be pleased because their world is rainbows and lollipops that human nature will never allow to come about.

The protestors should all be given molten-glass enemas, not because what they’re doing is wrong or unpatriotic, but because they’re all damn dirty hippies, and I hate damn dirty hippies.

jcbart, I agree with your assessment. I’ve had some very good conversations with intelligent protestors that disagreed with, for example, the preemptive strike doctrine. I do have a major problem with breaking laws and making life miserable for everyone else. Not only does it not stop the war, it also makes people less tolerant of any valid points you may have; once you’ve made it impossible for me to get to work, I could give a shit if you’re the son of fucking God at that point.

I’d seriously like to see statistics on the percentage of people at any given protest who could give a decent summary of the issues.

Most of them are probably out there because they would otherwise have
nothing else to occupy their minds other than how they have no real values or direction in life.

Anti-war protesters should be beaten like they were in the 60’s.

If at first this sounds totally unreasonable, think about it some more.

If you believed passionately in a cause, you would be more than willing to take a beating by riot police, and come back for more, I know would.

On the other hand, if you were some punk who was out there because you had nothing better to do, you’d probably decide to
sit at home.

Keep the sheep at home.

BTW Zev, does Molestra cause anal leakage?

Stella-This NY Times article will give you an idea of how fortune 500 companies will profit from the war

"WAR began last week. Reconstruction starts this week.

That, at least, is how it looks to government contract officers, who in the coming days plan to give American companies the first contracts to rebuild Iraq, a task that experts say could eventually cost $25 billion to $100 billion. It would be the largest postwar rebuilding since the Marshall Plan in Europe after World War II.

The companies that have been invited to bid on the work (of rebuilding Iraq) include some of the nation’s largest and most politically connected construction businesses. Among them are Halliburton, where Vice President Dick Cheney served as chief executive from 1995 until mid-2000; the Bechtel Group, whose ranks have included several Republican cabinet alumni; and Fluor, which has ties to several former top government intelligence and Pentagon procurement officials.
Others bidding on reconstruction business are the Parsons Corporation, the Louis Berger Group and the Washington Group International, which absorbed Morrison-Knudsen in 1996.
While those contracts are sizable ? potentially worth more than $1 billion ? they are a pittance compared with the deals to follow, according to Andrew S. Natsios, the director of United States Agency for International Development, which is overseeing the largest contract put out for bids so far."

UnoriginalBastard (whose name, ironically, is rather original):

Yes, Molestra does cause anal leakage, but only in the “catcher”.

Vredstein…would it ease your concience if these contracts were given to companies from Newfoundland?

To imagine that ones government would engage in such a war to generate a few Billion in contracts is a tough pill to swallow…is this REALLY your opinion?

If ONLY misery and suffering would come of this war and there would NEVER be anyone who profited from it, would that make it better or more just? Would that remove the ulterior motive for the conspiracy minded? War profiteers are as old as war itself…even in the first war, someone had to sharpen the sticks and gather the rocks and they probably wanted to get paid…

In the meantime, the Newfies are awaiting your answer…

“Wagner was a monster. He was anti-Semitic on Mondays and vegetarian on Tuesdays. On Wednesday he was in favor of annexing Newfoundland, Thursday he wanted to sink Venice and Friday he wanted to blow up the pope”

~ Tony Palmer

On FoxNews last night a reporter was talking to a demonstrater in NY.
Reporter: “You agree that Sadam has to go?”
Girl: “Yes”
Reporter: “You just don’t think war is the way to do it?”
Girl: “Yes”
Reporter: “Then how?”
The girl just stared with her mouth open for about 20 silence filled seconds and then tape cut to someone else. Classic.