T Nation

Anti-Hip Hop

OK that I’ve got your attention I want to make something clear: I love hip-hop music. I love djing and mcing, and I think that Hip Hop is one of the greatest art forms there is.

However, I also must talk about things that I really hate: closemindedness. I honestly cannot stand people who are closeminded about stuff (ex: All preachers are bad people, all women are bitches, all white people are racists). Its something that irks the living hell out of me.

So What is my point? Well over the years I’ve heard plenty of people who were vehemently anti-hip-hop. OK that wouldn’t be a problem, if its weren’t for the reasons WHY these cats hate hip hop. These people seem to believe that ALL HIP-HOP is misogynistic, violent, materialistic, and encourages negative behavior. Whenever, I heard this I would just clench my lips together and try to explain to them that not all hip-hop music was like this, and of course get absolutely horrible results. Yet I still continued the good fight and hoping to change people’s minds. Until today.

I heard some response on a message board in which the person basically said:

“I hate Hip-Hop. These rappers are a menace out here damaging the youth and glorifying tales of murder and violence against women. This is why Hip-Hop should be taken off the radio!”

At that moment I decided to respond by saying the most eloquent response available: “Good Sir; FUCK YOU!”

“Look I know that alot of Hip-Hop is filled with violence and negativity, but to use a broad brush and PAINT all hip-hop as such is retarded. But you know what? I can’t even accept what you are saying because your response is just plain childish and weak-minded. How can an allegedly “intelligent adult” have the lack of forsight to at least hypothesize the very possiblity that just because you hear a song with a flow, delivery, and no melody that it at least may be positive? I shouldn’t need to defend an art-form because you shouldn’t be the dickhead that you are, and see that hip-hop isn’t one thing! Young Jeezy and the Game are assholes, but your comments and shoddy worldview show to me that you are every bit as screwed up as they are. So jabroni, why don’t you do yourself a favor and sit down and keep you candy ass mouth shut. Punk BITCH!”

Yes the response was crude, however, I honestly feel this way. If I must go out of my way to at least explain the possibilty that hip-hop can be positive then it’s proof that this person needs to check themselves and question their personality. It’s absolutely baffling that people can be so foolish and prejudiced. Is the world they live in so black and white? I’m sorry for the rant, but I’m so tired of hearing the stupidity these dudes spew and I know that other people on this board feels the same way too.

Guys like me don’t like it for many reasons. I don’t like it because they don’t play instruments.

I put it below jazz, rock, and funk. I just put these guys on the same level as Robert plant, Casandra Wilson, or George Clinton. It has nothing to do with prejudice, more the perception that it takes less natural ability to steal someone else’s music and rhyme than to compose a song and use your natural vocal ability with some actual playing instruments.

If you like it fine, I don’t like it much for the above reasons.

[quote]blackartsviper wrote:
Wrote stuff…[/quote]

So, to show him you’re more of an intelligent adult than him you resorted to name calling and swearing? Bravo!

[quote]blackartsviper wrote:

“Look I know that alot of Hip-Hop is filled with violence and negativity, but to use a broad brush and PAINT all hip-hop as such is retarded. But you know what? I can’t even accept what you are saying because your response is just plain childish and weak-minded. How can an allegedly “intelligent adult” have the lack of forsight to at least hypothesize the very possiblity that just because you hear a song with a flow, delivery, and no melody that it at least may be positive? I shouldn’t need to defend an art-form because you should be the dickhead that you are, and see that hip-hop isn’t one thing! Young Jeezy and the Game are assholes, but your comments and shoddy worldview show to me that you are every bit as screwed up as they are. So jabroni, why don’t you do yourself a favor and sit down and keep you candy ass mouth shut. Punk BITCH!” [/quote]

Hip-hop may be great, it may be awful, but if this is really what you said, you didn’t help your cause at all, You sound like a half-literate moron.

If hip-hop needs people to step up and defend it, rest assured you won’t be asked to do it.

For some reason I thought this thread involved Ants and Hip Hop. I’m disappointed.

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Guys like me don’t like it for many reasons. I don’t like it because they don’t play instruments.

I put it below jazz, rock, and funk. I just put these guys on the same level as Robert plant, Casandra Wilson, or George Clinton. It has nothing to do with prejudice, more the perception that it takes less natural ability to steal someone else’s music and rhyme than to compose a song and use your natural vocal ability with some actual playing instruments.

If you like it fine, I don’t like it much for the above reasons.[/quote]

Not my first choice of what to listen to, some of it’s pretty good. To me, it’s street poetry with a beat. The words are what’s important here, not the talent of musicians, because there usually aren’t any! Is it really music then? Yeah, I would say so. Just as much as techno or totally electronically generated music is still music.

But then again, what the hell do I know. I’m just the bass player, and I don’t sing.

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
But then again, what the hell do I know. I’m just the bass player, and I don’t sing.

[/quote]

Yeah! You just strum and play a max of 3 notes per song!

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Guys like me don’t like it for many reasons. I don’t like it because they don’t play instruments.

I put it below jazz, rock, and funk. I just put these guys on the same level as Robert plant, Casandra Wilson, or George Clinton. It has nothing to do with prejudice, more the perception that it takes less natural ability to steal someone else’s music and rhyme than to compose a song and use your natural vocal ability with some actual playing instruments.

If you like it fine, I don’t like it much for the above reasons.

Not my first choice of what to listen to, some of it’s pretty good. To me, it’s street poetry with a beat. The words are what’s important here, not the talent of musicians, because there usually aren’t any! Is it really music then? Yeah, I would say so. Just as much as techno or totally electronically generated music is still music.

But then again, what the hell do I know. I’m just the bass player, and I don’t sing.

[/quote]

You apparently know enough to get it.

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Guys like me don’t like it for many reasons. I don’t like it because they don’t play instruments.

I put it below jazz, rock, and funk. I just put these guys on the same level as Robert plant, Casandra Wilson, or George Clinton. It has nothing to do with prejudice, more the perception that it takes less natural ability to steal someone else’s music and rhyme than to compose a song and use your natural vocal ability with some actual playing instruments.

If you like it fine, I don’t like it much for the above reasons.[/quote]

I only have a couple things I want to say about this post. First, there are a lot(it can be argued what constitutes “a lot”) of hip hop groups that use traditional musical instruments. Second, it can be argued that the turntable is a musical instrument. Finally, sampling isn’t “stealing” if permission is received and credit is given. Also, sampling can be thought of as a type of interpretation, similar to jazz interpretations.

But, like you said, if you don’t like, don’t like it. Fine with me. Besides, I don’t really want to spend to much time defending the OP who did a pretty poor job himself.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
blackartsviper wrote:

Hip-hop may be great, it may be awful, but if this is really what you said, you didn’t help your cause at all, You sound like a half-literate moron.

If hip-hop needs people to step up and defend it, rest assured you won’t be asked to do it.[/quote]

Its not about defending hip-hop, or helping the cause. Its just me spilling out honest anger. Like I said earlier, I shouldn’t need to defend Hip-Hop Culture. I shouldn’t need to rattle off examples like KRS-ONE, Rakim, Public Enemy, Talib, Mos Def, Little Brother. It should be evident based off pure common sense that Hip-Hop is capable of producing works and compositions that promotes positivity. Yet 90% of the anti-hip hop posts I’ve read or heard have followed the same outline

-All Hip Hop music promotes anti-social behavior
-Its music that promotes violence, materialism, drugs, misogynism, and black degredation.

Now, as I said earlier, I would always turn the other cheek and calmly and respectfully defend this art-form, by giving off examples and explaining how such a negative view of an entire artform and culture was flawed. However, people didn’t want to hear it and after a while I became frustrated because I realized that I shouldn’t be doing this in the first place.

To just say that all hip-hop is synonomous with gang culture and violence in my opinion is borderline offensive. First of all, you’re basing it on limited experience. Secondly, even if you haven’t heard any positive Hip-Hop, the laws of common sense would tell you that such music probably exists somewhere or that the music is capable of such a message.

To label all hip-hop performers with such a broad brush reeks of xenophobia and personally over the past couple of months, I’ve really gotten to the breaking point with closed-minded and xenophobic behavior. This isn’t really all about Hip-Hop. I’ve been getting into some discussions lately with certain people who seem to believe that all people connected with religion are crooks, plus I had to deal with a racist after the Michael Richards fiasco. My tolerance for things that I view as closedminded have reached a boiling point.

I know that I could have sent used less vicious language in my post and I know that I could have easily just ignored this person. Also, I don’t know this person so from what I know this person could have been a decent cat in real life. But to be quite honest, I just wanted unload on this person because this was an issue that has bothered me for some time. It wasn’t about winning an argument or persuading somebody to see my side of the story. It was just me letting my rage out on a person.

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Guys like me don’t like it for many reasons. I don’t like it because they don’t play instruments.

I put it below jazz, rock, and funk. I just put these guys on the same level as Robert plant, Casandra Wilson, or George Clinton. It has nothing to do with prejudice, more the perception that it takes less natural ability to steal someone else’s music and rhyme than to compose a song and use your natural vocal ability with some actual playing instruments.

If you like it fine, I don’t like it much for the above reasons.[/quote]

Actually I understand your dislike of Hip-Hop and respect it. Its purely an aesthetic decision which I can understand. Hey I’m not the biggest fan of Country Music or the Opera (and I no this sounds blasphemous but I’m not the world’s biggest Beatles fan). I wasn’t commenting on you and I actually like some of the music you are into. I love Parliament and I’ve come to appreciate Led Zeppelin over the years. Different strokes for different folks.

[quote]malonetd wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Guys like me don’t like it for many reasons. I don’t like it because they don’t play instruments.

I put it below jazz, rock, and funk. I just put these guys on the same level as Robert plant, Casandra Wilson, or George Clinton. It has nothing to do with prejudice, more the perception that it takes less natural ability to steal someone else’s music and rhyme than to compose a song and use your natural vocal ability with some actual playing instruments.

If you like it fine, I don’t like it much for the above reasons.

I only have a couple things I want to say about this post. First, there are a lot(it can be argued what constitutes “a lot”) of hip hop groups that use traditional musical instruments. Second, it can be argued that the turntable is a musical instrument. Finally, sampling isn’t “stealing” if permission is received and credit is given. Also, sampling can be thought of as a type of interpretation, similar to jazz interpretations.

But, like you said, if you don’t like, don’t like it. Fine with me. Besides, I don’t really want to spend to much time defending the OP who did a pretty poor job himself.[/quote]

The Roots play much of their own music. Why do people try so hard to not only overgeneralize an entire genre of music, but degrade it in the process?

My not liking hip hop is more personal preference than anything else. I just like vocalist and great playing. If others like it, fine. Just don’t think that the only reason is some bad social example.

Johnny Cash had drug problems, many jazz guys also did. As for rock, they’re not all going to church every sunday.

I always liked songwriters who put a lot of visuals in their music, which is something that hip hop does. I jusr prefer it in a song with a band.

If you take early Bruce Springsteen, you’ll see some similarities between his songs and hip hop. Check out the lyrics to Blinded By the Night, For You, thunder Road and so. Now take those lyrics, change the beat a little, rap instead of singing, and you’d have a hip hop track.

There’s a lot more similarities in various styles of music than many people think, and this should be understood and respected. But some stuff will just not be some people’s cup of tea, and that’s also okay.

In any field, there’s always going to be a difference between an ARTIST and an ENTERTAINER. The problem right now is that what’s playing on the radio is mostly entertainers rather than artists. I mean, I don’t mind listening to a Young Jeezy song every now and then while I’m driving or whatever, but let’s face it- the guy is strictly an entertainer. You can appreciate him for that, but as an artist, he obvioulsy can’t hold a candle to guys like Mos Def or the Roots.

Just like in rock music; Tool = artists, Nickleback = entertainers.

Did that one guy say “Funk”???

Woowwwwww…

Your response was written out of anger, why?

Why justify people who overgeneralize and try to belittle anything you enjoy?

Ignore them and laugh.

Arguing about music is almost as bad as arguing about politics or religion.

[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
Your response was written out of anger, why?

Why justify people who overgeneralize and try to belittle anything you enjoy?

Ignore them and laugh.

Arguing about music is almost as bad as arguing about politics or religion.[/quote]

And tits.

You guys are all being too close-minded. Who are you to dismiss all closmindedness as retarted. That’s the problem with the younger generation, always dismissing another’s viewpoint just because it’s different. Open your mind, a little close-mindedness can be good.

Kidding, of course.

On a serious note, my friend’s dad doesn’t allow ANY type of music where anyone is ‘rapping’ because he says it promotes gang culture, etc.

This aggravates me too, because I like to listen to ‘artistic’ and ‘entertaining’ hip-hop.

But many anti-hip hop people do kind of have a point, the majority of the music they are objecting to is the garbage played on the radio, they aren’t hearing all of the really good hip-hop that’s been made. So I guess they do kind of have a point.

Most of it sucks moose balls but so did most of the crappy rock and roll they played on the radio when I was a kid.

Most popular music does not stand up to the test of time.

i don’t like hip hop cause the way it “sounds” hurt my CNS. It make me feel angry in a way i don’t like… as taxes for example… i don’t know way. Polka give me the same feelings…