Anti-Estrogen at Young Age?

Pharma / TRT
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[quote]hangiron wrote:
KSman wrote:
Yes do the blood work. If your E2 is high and you lower it to a decent level, that will be harmless. You do not want to take E2 too low, then that is harmful.

You should try to get your E2 levels to the lower 20’s [ 0-53 pg/ml]. Use Arimidex/anastrozole. Letrozole is too unpredictable from a dose-response point of view. Young lean males have low[er] estrogen levels and you are seeking to have that.

The treatment is easy. Finding a doctor who knows what to do will be the challenge. You might have to fight to get proper treatment. Do not stand for ay “you will grow out of it”.

It would be a good idea to also take a SERM, but not long term. Nolvadex would be the better one. Clomid will also work, but has some side effects for some that you do not want.

If you can get a complete hormone workup, that would be good. TT, FT, E2, LS, FSH, SHBG, prolactin, progesterone. Skip saliva tests. You will probably need an endocrinologist to deal with that.

At your age, T should be high and E low.

Stay away from tea tree oil and lavender oil, acts like estrogen.

Have you had any blows to the head or whip lash in the time frame leading up to the start of this?

Nolvadex 20mg/day.
Arimidex 1mg/wk in divided doses.

When you stop a SERM you must taper off, never stop suddenly. Once breast tissue develops [not the fat] it is harder to shrink and eliminate the longer that it exists. So time is a critical issue. I would want to get the blood draws for the lab, then start on Arimidex and Nolvadex immediately, not waiting for the lab results.

When you get your E2 under control, you should slowly have a [slow] change in fat patterns and should loose fat. You may need to treat this estrogen problem for a long time.

Best of luck… You are now headed down the right road.

with all due respect ksman you are talking serious chemicals to a 14 year old

i know these are references to be brought forth to a doctor… and i am not trying to start shit please understand that! but i do feel that you should express your concerns about having these medically supervised when giving such references

now i will express my thoughts as to keep off these drugs a little longer and keep training/dieting harder [/quote]

Adex has no known side effects. And 1mg/wk is very small as well as far as been a chemical load on the body.

SERMs have sides for some. These will be used short term and nothing permanent is to be expected.

The results are to move E2 levels into a lower but still normal range that many young males have anyways. So no harm in that. The SERM will block the estrogen from acting on the estrogen receptors of breast tissue.

Perhaps the use of the adex will be longer, to sustain things instead of a one time magic cure.

As drugs go, these are quite safe. These drugs can be used safely and intellegently… if one finds a doctor who has the knowledge and skills.

But time is critical and you can’t wait if you are wanting to shrink instead of surgery later on.

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@hangiron

Thanks :smiley:

@KSman

Is this like your body’s “set weight point” as i read in an article? On how if your body is used to a carrying a certain amount of weight it has trouble moving from it, and after keeping at at a new weight for longer periods, it adjusts? All this except with hormones?

I read “T levels should reduce.” does that mean what i think it means?

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[quote]KSman wrote:
Adex has no known side effects. And 1mg/wk is very small as well as far as been a chemical load on the body.

SERMs have sides for some. These will be used short term and nothing permanent is to be expected.

The results are to move E2 levels into a lower but still normal range that many young males have anyways. So no harm in that. The SERM will block the estrogen from acting on the estrogen receptors of breast tissue.

Perhaps the use of the adex will be longer, to sustain things instead of a one time magic cure.

As drugs go, these are quite safe. These drugs can be used safely and intellegently… if one finds a doctor who has the knowledge and skills.

But time is critical and you can’t wait if you are wanting to shrink instead of surgery later on.[/quote]

Ok. What are the temporary side effects? Yea i’d rather fix it with drugs then getting under the knife. Thanks again for the info! I talked to my parents, they said they’ll book an appointment with a doctor who understands hormones for next weekend. Once again, thanks for the info, ill still collect info until next weekend, and ill post his subscription (if any) and post ocationally on the results.

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[quote]ahzaz wrote:
That was the reason i said that i’d prefer that i get the go’head from the doctor before putting anything into my body which messes with my hormones. I might screw around with diet and excersize, but messing around with hormones, especially at 14, doesnt seem like a good idea, unless supervised.[/quote]

That is good thinking. But when your hormones are already in a screwed up state and making problems, you do need to mess with them to get things right. You do need a doctor to manage this. Girls diet and excercise and their breasts do not go away. You do need the big guns.

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[quote]ahzaz wrote:

  1. Will any of these have side-effects? (other than losing fat, moobs, etc.)
    [/quote]
    Arimidex does not have sides except from the indirect effects of taking E2 too low. You dosing should be adjusted and E2 levels will not be too low.

SERMs have side when used for a longer amount of time. These clear when the SERM is stopped [tapered]. I would not worry about that aspect.

This will be determined by how your problem responds. As some point it will be called an end-point and hopefully your problem is gone. Do not call it a cycle, it will be a treatment or therapy. Some things are not predicable and are simply highly variable.

You should avoid abrupt hormone changes and specifically abrupt increases in E. SERMs need to be tapered off as the hypothalamus and pituitary gland will suddenly see E when they had seen none at all [from the effects of the SERM]. You need to taper off of the SERM, and all the better when the Arimidex is still limiting E levels. With an SERM alone, your E levels would actually be higher, even as the SERM had been blinding the estrogen receptors [selected] to its effects.

Tell them about your gyno and that you want to get rid of them. Ask for a serum E2 test. You want to use both Arimidex and Nolvadex to shrink the tissue. Ask that your E2 levels be reduced to the lower 20’s [0-53pg/ml]. If this condition is left alone, this will increase the chances that the problem will require surgery.

I am suggesting that you ask your doctor to get you onto those drugs right after the lab blood draw. Dose corrections will need to be made anyways. So the initial dose of Arimidex is somewhat arbitrary anyways. The SERM will probably be standardized dose. I was not suggesting that you do anything not under the control of your doctor.

Not a gynecologist… bad joke. An endocrinologist should know what to do. But endo’s are often not very good at male hormone issues of any kind. Some GPs are good at such things, self study, and such can easily as a group be better at things than endo’s. Finding the right doctor is the biggest challenge. It should not be that way. So no easy answer. A sad state of affairs.

Hard to say… how fast can you hook up with a doctor? Once treatment starts, the time line is under the control of your body. Statistics mean nothing.

A blow to the head can damage the pituitary gland, that is why I asked.

[quote]

@whoever asked about the body fat thing
Thats why on the OP i wrote that i have a big skeletal structure. My weight doesnt reflect my appearance much. People would guess (by looking at me) to being around 150lb. My bones are pretty dense (never broken a bone in my life) so i weigh more. And yea, it is 12-15%, because i read somewhere that the top 2 abs are visible up to 15%, i have the top 4 visible. Remember, the body fat % is just a number. You cant tell a person’s physique by just a number. Thats why i dont consider myself “built” because im not. I might be big to the kids around my age, but im pretty small for my weight.

BTW, thanks for the info. Really helpful.[/quote]

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What about trying DIM?

Or do people feel it is useless?

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[quote]GetSwole wrote:
What about trying DIM?

Or do people feel it is useless?[/quote]

DIM?

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Google, its a substance naturally occurring in broccolo, cauliflower etc etc. Supposed to help with estrogen metabolism.

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Went to doc, office closed, planning on going tomorrow. Ill get back to you guys.

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Ok guys, I know its been a long time, because i was busy with a lot of school work and i couldnt find the right doctor, but im back. Bumping this up.

I went to the doctor today, despite what i wanted (male doctor with this knoledge) i got a female one, but she seemed to understand.

Highlights: Im going to a blood test on tuesday for hormones. The doctor thinks im overreacting, and it’ll go away in 5-7 months, but i’ve had it for a few years, i told her that too. She is also very against any medication for it. She wants me to print my sources off for her, so i need really good and trustable sites on puberal gyno, hormones, etc.

One thing i found humourous was that she said taking creatine constantly can cause high blood pressure in people that have come in to her who took it. My blood pressure was fairly low.

She understood a lot of the information, and seems like a good doctor. She is also saying that these things can cause infirtility in the future. Any thoughts about that? I would still appriciate good sources from the net about gyno and hormones that i can print and show her. Thanks again.

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I may be incorrect but I beleive a testosterone test requires a 24 hour fast to be as accurate as possible. Good luck buddy I hope it all works out for you.

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[quote]ahzaz wrote:
Ok guys, I know its been a long time, because i was busy with a lot of school work and i couldnt find the right doctor, but im back. Bumping this up.

I went to the doctor today, despite what i wanted (male doctor with this knoledge) i got a female one, but she seemed to understand.

Highlights: Im going to a blood test on tuesday for hormones. The doctor thinks im overreacting, and it’ll go away in 5-7 months, but i’ve had it for a few years, i told her that too. She is also very against any medication for it. She wants me to print my sources off for her, so i need really good and trustable sites on puberal gyno, hormones, etc.

One thing i found humourous was that she said taking creatine constantly can cause high blood pressure in people that have come in to her who took it. My blood pressure was fairly low.

She understood a lot of the information, and seems like a good doctor. She is also saying that these things can cause infirtility in the future. Any thoughts about that? I would still appriciate good sources from the net about gyno and hormones that i can print and show her. Thanks again.[/quote]

Ahzaz, you may or may not understand this at 14, you can always google it or pick up a statistics text book.

But, many doctors and other people will use the following to get you to think like them, particularly if they think you are young enough to just blindly say ok (you) or just plain dumb.

But, drumroll please,

Correlation DOES NOT = causality.

And thats basically the her flawed response about creatine and all that shit.

I hate to sound like a cynic, but the medical community DOES NOT always have the well-being of the patient in mind.

If you find a doc you really trust, use them for everything you can. It’s a sad state of affairs, but its the way it is, nonetheless.

At least in America.

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@poacher: Yup, im going for the test on tuesday (missing school) at 9am, no breakfast.

@GS: Yea the doctor kept saying “someone’s been doing a lot of googling” and at the end she told my mom “if i were you i would keep him away from all the googling hes doing.” When i mentioned that if i dont deal with it now, i might need surgery later, she got all spazzy on me.

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[quote]hangiron wrote:
Gynecomastia: Practice Essentials, Background, Etiology [/quote]

Perfect! Thanks a lot man!

Doctors are stupid =_=" Dumbshit didnt even give the form, might have to wait till saturday…

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Have you finished growing? If you haven’t, an anti-estrogen can actually prolong your growth cycle, as estrogen is responsible for the closure of the epiphyseal plates. It’s a good thing if you want to be taller. Less estrogen at puberty is why for the most part men end up taller than women!

Growth hormone factors in as well but estrogen is a little known mediator of maximum height.

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[quote]KSman wrote:
… how fast can you hook up with a doctor?[/quote]

Lol.

/hijack

@OP: Good to see you’re taking in the advice. Fill us in on what your Doctor advises. Hopefully he’ll take you seriously.

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[quote]ahzaz wrote:
Heres something i thought you would find interesting:

In one recent study, aromatase inhibitors were found to be no more successful at treating pubertal gynecomastia than a placebo. [5]

I think this is pubertal so im not sure if it would fix anything or not, but i’ll leave that to my doctor. He/she should know about this.[/quote]

good job on getting looked at
I started the whole puberty thing around 12 with hair and shaving all that
I had a full mustache by age 14 I also was worried because I was getting the fem.like fat deposits.and wha tlooked like pre-pubacent breasts

I got looked at and yes I had higher than normal test and estrogen levels.however the doc said ride it out see what happens and by 16 all levels were normal. and the symptoms that I was worried about were gone.

hopefully this is just one of those awkward times for your body and you have nothing to worry about.

of course I applaude your responses and yes you do have a very good head on your shoulders,dont waste that.
good luck

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i’m with nichaaron on this one too man. i’m 19 right now and still remember going through what you are like it was yesterday. i didn’t have the knowledge that i do now so i had no idea what it was.

i was really pudgy n worked out a lot but still remained pudgy. also my nipples were really sensitive, it hurt really bad to even wear my hockey shoulder pads. over time it gradually went away. just hang in there!

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@Dopamineloveaffa:
I wouldnt mind 4-5" more. Thats good news.

@Makavali: I went to the doc before, and she didnt take me seriously =/

@Nichaaron and razarr69: So you 2 are suggesting that i should just ride it out? I dont mind that as much, but i dont like looking like a hourglass. And hopefully as DLA stated (if true/someone can clarify) is right, then i need the extra inches. Im at 10-12% bf (recently checked, weight currently at 175lb, 31" relaxed waist, 28.5 sucked in) but i still have moobs, which makes me feel uncomfortable taking off my shirt.