Another Relationship Question

Pull away, make her realize that she is at risk of losing you. If she doesn’t wise up, you lost nothing in reality. She is probably damaged goods, which means you are about to become the emotional Mike Tyson punching bag (yea not so fun).

Hang out with friends, don’t be so available, people want what they can’t have.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Plus, I am telling you right now, she is trying to make you a Beta Orbiter.

Probably not consciously, but committment without sex is for women what sex without committment is for men.

Dont do that. [/quote]

This. Never heard the “Beta Orbiter” thing before, but it’s absolutely accurate. My ex accumulated these guys until she was pretty much her own star system. Her ability to do it was incredible. It was a power thing for her, whether she knew it or not. May be a safety thing with this girl but protecting yourself and exerting power have tremendous overlap.

Don’t be that guy.[/quote]

… I’m feeling a little paranoid now… Feeling like I might be in a couple different star systems…
[/quote]

You probably are. It happens. My ex would pull pretty much any hetero (and even a few gay) male who crossed her path into her gravity well. She was like some sort of super massive black hole for dudes vainly hoping to score. She was fairly hot (maybe 8-8.5/10) but she had simply HUGE game. At first I thought it was pretty funny. Then it started to piss me off a little. Apparently it didn’t piss me off as much as she hoped it would, cause she kept escalating the drama in hopes of getting a reaction from me. I’m not that guy. That got old fast, but not fast enough in retrospect (3 years). Anyway, did I mention she’s my ex.

My advice, if you care, is don’t be too available, socially or emotionally. You can’t fake this IMO. You actually have to get to where you’re genuinely detached from any expectations one way or the other and so into your own life interests and pursuits that you really could take or leave any these women, but in a friendly, light hearted sort of way. I’m not suggesting you try to act aloof or “alpha” or whatever. I’m talking about a place of real inner freedom where you just aren’t too wrapped up in other people or things. This is not a weekend project. It is an authentic, organic process that takes time and discipline. However, it will a.) allow you the freedom to enjoy your life more and, b.) increase the likelihood that you will either close the deal or with or be ejected from the orbit of chicks like that (see a.).

I’ll stop preaching.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

My advice, if you care, is don’t be too available, socially or emotionally. You can’t fake this IMO. You actually have to get to where you’re genuinely detached from any expectations one way or the other and so into your own life interests and pursuits that you really could take or leave any these women, but in a friendly, light hearted sort of way. I’m not suggesting you try to act aloof or “alpha” or whatever. I’m talking about a place of real inner freedom where you just aren’t too wrapped up in other people or things. This is not a weekend project. It is an authentic, organic process that takes time and discipline. However, it will a.) allow you the freedom to enjoy your life more and, b.) increase the likelihood that you will either close the deal or with or be ejected from the orbit of chicks like that (see a.).

I’ll stop preaching.[/quote]

Soooo…

You are saying that noone should try to be aloof and alpha, but they should really be aloof an alpha?

Ok…

I disagree with most of the posters especially everyone who seems to think your girl is their ex.

I think you should just continue as you are and wait 'till she’s ready to get physical.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Plus, I am telling you right now, she is trying to make you a Beta Orbiter.

Probably not consciously, but committment without sex is for women what sex without committment is for men.

Dont do that. [/quote]

This. Never heard the “Beta Orbiter” thing before, but it’s absolutely accurate. My ex accumulated these guys until she was pretty much her own star system. Her ability to do it was incredible. It was a power thing for her, whether she knew it or not. May be a safety thing with this girl but protecting yourself and exerting power have tremendous overlap.

Don’t be that guy.[/quote]

… I’m feeling a little paranoid now… Feeling like I might be in a couple different star systems…
[/quote]

You probably are. It happens. My ex would pull pretty much any hetero (and even a few gay) male who crossed her path into her gravity well. She was like some sort of super massive black hole for dudes vainly hoping to score. She was fairly hot (maybe 8-8.5/10) but she had simply HUGE game. At first I thought it was pretty funny. Then it started to piss me off a little. Apparently it didn’t piss me off as much as she hoped it would, cause she kept escalating the drama in hopes of getting a reaction from me. I’m not that guy. That got old fast, but not fast enough in retrospect (3 years). Anyway, did I mention she’s my ex.

My advice, if you care, is don’t be too available, socially or emotionally. You can’t fake this IMO. You actually have to get to where you’re genuinely detached from any expectations one way or the other and so into your own life interests and pursuits that you really could take or leave any these women, but in a friendly, light hearted sort of way. I’m not suggesting you try to act aloof or “alpha” or whatever. I’m talking about a place of real inner freedom where you just aren’t too wrapped up in other people or things. This is not a weekend project. It is an authentic, organic process that takes time and discipline. However, it will a.) allow you the freedom to enjoy your life more and, b.) increase the likelihood that you will either close the deal or with or be ejected from the orbit of chicks like that (see a.).

I’ll stop preaching.[/quote]

Gay beta orbiters !?!

Respect!

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

My advice, if you care, is don’t be too available, socially or emotionally. You can’t fake this IMO. You actually have to get to where you’re genuinely detached from any expectations one way or the other and so into your own life interests and pursuits that you really could take or leave any these women, but in a friendly, light hearted sort of way. I’m not suggesting you try to act aloof or “alpha” or whatever. I’m talking about a place of real inner freedom where you just aren’t too wrapped up in other people or things. This is not a weekend project. It is an authentic, organic process that takes time and discipline. However, it will a.) allow you the freedom to enjoy your life more and, b.) increase the likelihood that you will either close the deal or with or be ejected from the orbit of chicks like that (see a.).

I’ll stop preaching.[/quote]

Soooo…

You are saying that noone should try to be aloof and alpha, but they should really be aloof an alpha?

Ok…[/quote]

Not exactly. It sounds stupid when you say it like that…

I’m saying that if you concern yourself with surface stuff and whether you are acting “alpha” as per some checklist in a magazine or a blog somewhere you are missing the point. You may get laid, but you are missing the point. You are also going to tense up and burn up a tremendous amount of mental energy monitoring yourself and fighting your own natural “beta” tendencies. You will get better at this over time Fake it til you make it is ok, but not the be all.

If you’re primarily interested in getting your shit together internally you will end up being able to see through these types of bullshit games more easily and you’ll understand why you fall for them. You also won’t need to restrain your desire to call her three times a day or drop everything and rush over the second she wants her couch moved. You’ll be able to “be yourself” without being needy and pathetic, instead of trying like hell to act like you’re not needy and pathetic. This just seems easier to me.

Not at all referring to you personally csulli.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

My advice, if you care, is don’t be too available, socially or emotionally. You can’t fake this IMO. You actually have to get to where you’re genuinely detached from any expectations one way or the other and so into your own life interests and pursuits that you really could take or leave any these women, but in a friendly, light hearted sort of way. I’m not suggesting you try to act aloof or “alpha” or whatever. I’m talking about a place of real inner freedom where you just aren’t too wrapped up in other people or things. This is not a weekend project. It is an authentic, organic process that takes time and discipline. However, it will a.) allow you the freedom to enjoy your life more and, b.) increase the likelihood that you will either close the deal or with or be ejected from the orbit of chicks like that (see a.).

I’ll stop preaching.[/quote]

Soooo…

You are saying that noone should try to be aloof and alpha, but they should really be aloof an alpha?

Ok…[/quote]

Not exactly. It sounds stupid when you say it like that…

I’m saying that if you concern yourself with surface stuff and whether you are acting “alpha” as per some checklist in a magazine or a blog somewhere you are missing the point. You may get laid, but you are missing the point. You are also going to tense up and burn up a tremendous amount of mental energy monitoring yourself and fighting your own natural “beta” tendencies. You will get better at this over time Fake it til you make it is ok, but not the be all.

If you’re primarily interested in getting your shit together internally you will end up being able to see through these types of bullshit games more easily and you’ll understand why you fall for them. You also won’t need to restrain your desire to call her three times a day or drop everything and rush over the second she wants her couch moved. You’ll be able to “be yourself” without being needy and pathetic, instead of trying like hell to act like you’re not needy and pathetic. This just seems easier to me.

Not at all referring to you personally csulli.[/quote]

Yeah that is true.

But the whole PUA stuff has seriously evolved from this whole “shtick” stuff.

Mostly they tried to find out what women react to, then they found out that “being a man” might actually fit the bill, so they said, ah, fuck it, lets try to grow up then.

What was unexpected is that a lot of boys actually did grow into men, which is where a lot of that MRA and Red Pill stuff comes from.

Because, a guy that has spent a decade studying women will know when feminism is throwing out a shit test.

How could he not?

I would not be surprised if a lot of these guys did read T-Nation too, because they stumbled over the interesting idea that in order to “build confidence” in order to get women, you could actually do things that make you “strong” and “healthy” —> confidence, brah

Admittedly, that stuff is cutting edge, so try that at your own risk.

[quote]on edge wrote:
I disagree with most of the posters especially everyone who seems to think your girl is their ex.

I think you should just continue as you are and wait 'till she’s ready to get physical.[/quote]

For the record, I did not mean to imply that this was the situation with the OP.

I just liked the expression and thought it was particularly apt.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Plus, I am telling you right now, she is trying to make you a Beta Orbiter.

Probably not consciously, but committment without sex is for women what sex without committment is for men.

Dont do that. [/quote]

This. Never heard the “Beta Orbiter” thing before, but it’s absolutely accurate. My ex accumulated these guys until she was pretty much her own star system. Her ability to do it was incredible. It was a power thing for her, whether she knew it or not. May be a safety thing with this girl but protecting yourself and exerting power have tremendous overlap.

Don’t be that guy.[/quote]

… I’m feeling a little paranoid now… Feeling like I might be in a couple different star systems…
[/quote]

You probably are. It happens. My ex would pull pretty much any hetero (and even a few gay) male who crossed her path into her gravity well. She was like some sort of super massive black hole for dudes vainly hoping to score. She was fairly hot (maybe 8-8.5/10) but she had simply HUGE game. At first I thought it was pretty funny. Then it started to piss me off a little. Apparently it didn’t piss me off as much as she hoped it would, cause she kept escalating the drama in hopes of getting a reaction from me. I’m not that guy. That got old fast, but not fast enough in retrospect (3 years). Anyway, did I mention she’s my ex.

My advice, if you care, is don’t be too available, socially or emotionally. You can’t fake this IMO. You actually have to get to where you’re genuinely detached from any expectations one way or the other and so into your own life interests and pursuits that you really could take or leave any these women, but in a friendly, light hearted sort of way. I’m not suggesting you try to act aloof or “alpha” or whatever. I’m talking about a place of real inner freedom where you just aren’t too wrapped up in other people or things. This is not a weekend project. It is an authentic, organic process that takes time and discipline. However, it will a.) allow you the freedom to enjoy your life more and, b.) increase the likelihood that you will either close the deal or with or be ejected from the orbit of chicks like that (see a.).

I’ll stop preaching.[/quote]

Gay beta orbiters !?!

Respect!

[/quote]

I know, right!?

[quote]on edge wrote:
I disagree with most of the posters especially everyone who seems to think your girl is their ex.

I think you should just continue as you are and wait 'till she’s ready to get physical.[/quote]

I listen to everyone, but I’m selective on the advice I take. In fact, I agree on the “naturally alpha” thing, it’s more, stupid insecurities can and do still seem to get in the way when you genuinely like someone. It helps to have a roadmap to navigate it so you can stop yourself from getting in your own way.

But things are working fine. For that matter, her language patterns have started to change; here and there she’s makes comments as if us being together [as a couple] is a foregone conclusion. And the way she reacted to how unavailable I genuinely was today confirmed things.

I’m not really too concerned; it’s just a matter of not screwing anything up before things “happen on their own”.

Dude just put it in her butt. Guaranteed win!

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I disagree with most of the posters especially everyone who seems to think your girl is their ex.

I think you should just continue as you are and wait 'till she’s ready to get physical.[/quote]

For the record, I did not mean to imply that this was the situation with the OP.

I just liked the expression and thought it was particularly apt.[/quote]

Never once thought you were referring to me.

This isn’t “I hang out with her as a friend but I can’t tell if she likes me”, or anything like that. I’ve been there a few times, learned my lesson quickly. I do have a [female] coworker who does that though… she’s hot and smart at a tech company, and all the beta guys swarm around her and constant attention. Actually works out well for her, she sets direction and shit just gets done. Her alpha husband (who’s an executive at the same company) doesn’t care at all. Obviously.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Pull away, make her realize that she is at risk of losing you. If she doesn’t wise up, you lost nothing in reality. She is probably damaged goods, which means you are about to become the emotional Mike Tyson punching bag (yea not so fun).

Hang out with friends, don’t be so available, people want what they can’t have. [/quote]

Huh?

I’m not quite sure why her being “damaged goods” means I’m going to become an emotional punching bag. Of course she’s damaged goods, she didn’t find her “one true love” on the first try. But I’ll be damned if I let her take anything out on me.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Pull away, make her realize that she is at risk of losing you. If she doesn’t wise up, you lost nothing in reality. She is probably damaged goods, which means you are about to become the emotional Mike Tyson punching bag (yea not so fun).

Hang out with friends, don’t be so available, people want what they can’t have. [/quote]

Huh?

I’m not quite sure why her being “damaged goods” means I’m going to become an emotional punching bag. Of course she’s damaged goods, she didn’t find her “one true love” on the first try. But I’ll be damned if I let her take anything out on me.[/quote]

If I’m taking his meaning right, by damaged goods means that she’s packing baggage. Emotional baggage. So while everything is cool now, if it gets serious, she’ll just project her past hurts onto you, because you are the new person in her life. I’ve been crushed by girls like this way too many times, it’s really not worth it in the end. If they are still getting over an ex, honestly if you want to be involved with them, just keep it physical. Because they won’t be there on the emotional side, or they’ll just cut you out when things start to get serious and you won’t even expect it.

In the end, just “go with the flow” but keep in mind her past history and if she’s still holding on to shit from it, it will resurface. I guarantee that. And you said that she was the reason that you broke up with your ex? I’m guessing she knows that’s the case, so might be she afraid that you’ll leave her one day if you do get involved for “another girl”?

[quote]jldume wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Pull away, make her realize that she is at risk of losing you. If she doesn’t wise up, you lost nothing in reality. She is probably damaged goods, which means you are about to become the emotional Mike Tyson punching bag (yea not so fun).

Hang out with friends, don’t be so available, people want what they can’t have. [/quote]

Huh?

I’m not quite sure why her being “damaged goods” means I’m going to become an emotional punching bag. Of course she’s damaged goods, she didn’t find her “one true love” on the first try. But I’ll be damned if I let her take anything out on me.[/quote]

If I’m taking his meaning right, by damaged goods means that she’s packing baggage. Emotional baggage. So while everything is cool now, if it gets serious, she’ll just project her past hurts onto you, because you are the new person in her life. I’ve been crushed by girls like this way too many times, it’s really not worth it in the end. If they are still getting over an ex, honestly if you want to be involved with them, just keep it physical. Because they won’t be there on the emotional side, or they’ll just cut you out when things start to get serious and you won’t even expect it.

In the end, just “go with the flow” but keep in mind her past history and if she’s still holding on to shit from it, it will resurface. I guarantee that. And you said that she was the reason that you broke up with your ex? I’m guessing she knows that’s the case, so might be she afraid that you’ll leave her one day if you do get involved for “another girl”?[/quote]

That’s the meaning I got from what he said too.

I know what you’re saying, but I also haven’t met a single girl (who’s actually been in a serious relationship), that doesn’t have emotional baggage of some kind. It takes a lot of tact to redirect things properly. We all have our issues, but we all need to take responsibility for them and not hold our partner accountable. That’s what I mean by not being her emotional punching bag.

Yeah, I know she’ll have outbursts, I know she’ll be triggered by things I can’t control, but I can influence whether she takes it out on me or not. She might start out that way, but you can tactfully change the dynamics, without starting an argument. I can help her take responsibility for how she feels, instead of just getting stuck in this perpetual cycle of blaming others. If I can help her grow from it, I will.

This is one of those important roles in a serious relationship I don’t think enough guys know how to do.

This has gone way too far.

Point was: if you’re being used as an emotional punching bag, it’s not her, it’s you.