T Nation

another pound a day question?

I posted a few weeks ago about losing a pound a day through excessive amounts of cardio and calorie restriction. The consensus was that you can lose a few pounds a day- of muscle- but not of fat since once your body runs out of glycogen it starts tearing up muscle. This brought on another semi-bright idea.
If I was in a ketogenic state and my body is running on fats for energy would the same rules still apply?

I bumped the last one so why not this one too?

Well since no one is answering here is what I think. I don’t know what to think. Your point of switching your body into running on fats instead of carbs is well noted. Since the average person can store only 2000 grams of carbs and when they run out the body starts burning muscle, does this mean that if the body had an unlimited supply of carbs it probably wouldn’t burn any muscle? Probably.
SOOOO-
Shouldn’t the body just burn fat if its running on it anyway, and you’re not likely to run out of it anytime soon.
I think so…

You could always try it. Get out your calipers, take some “before” measurements, and try it for a week… but maybe try going for a half a pound a day, rather than a full pound. My guess is that after the first day, you won’t be able to pull yourself off the floor to do the rest of the week, especially if you’re on a low-carb diet. I’d make sure I was using some sort of supplementation like 4AD or methoxy7 to keep from losing too much muscle, if I were you.

The goal of the original question was not to do it everyday, just to get the 2 lbs a week thing over with in two day instead of 7 so a lifter could take it easy on the diet and exercise the rest of the week. I think I will try it. Why not. The idea seems to make sense, that if one is in ketosis and running on fats he should be able to burn an unlimited amount of fat without eating away at his muscle. Isn’t that the whole point of Bodyopus or the Ketogenic Diet anyway?

As I understand it, ketones are released by burning fat, which takes a certain amount of time. Let’s say you ‘use up’ most of the ketones in your bloodstream while, say, halfway through your intense regimen. Now here’s the question: how quickly/easily can the body convert fat into ketones, and how quickly can it convert energy from muscles? My guess is that you aren’t going to be able to pull resources from either fast enough to keep going. But that would depend on a lot of factors. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

A lot of things being pulled from peoples asses. No, its not possible. The body will limit the rate at which it will burn fat through several mechanism, regardless of being in ketosis or not. The body can hold 2000grams of carbs a day, where did this information come from. Not even close. The liver holds approx. 50-75g of glycogen and the muscles on avg. can hold up to 400g, last i’ve read.
Running out of glycogen does not make one start breaking down muscle automatically. If this was the case we wouldn’t be able to adapt to ketosis as low glycogen would cause muscle loss rather than adaptions to ketosis. Even on a balanced diet, as long as some requierements are meant (adaquete protein, cals, efa’s) the body doesnt just start breaking down muscle.
The fact is ketogenic diets work but haven’t panned out in the way many people wished they would. They don’t always allow unlimited fat burning, w/ no muscle loss. They potentially spare more muscle than other diets for some, but the body is smarter than us and still adapts through several complex mechanisms, including slowing of the metabolic rate, less thyroid output (which may or may not have an overall effect), low energy, sex drive, food cravings, extreme hunger, lowered leptin, etc etc)

Just know u cant lose 1lb of FAT a day, plain and simple. Even in the starvation studies, I believe the maximum fat lost was .7 lbs (pretty close), but along with it came an extreme loss in muscle, which screws u in the end. On top of that, this was done on obese subjects. People with higher bodyfat % lose more fat and spare more muscle, as you get leaner the ratios change with more muscle, less fat. Most of what you lose anyway is not dictated by diet anyway (as long as certain guidlines are followed), most is determined by other factors like bodyfat%, genetics, etc.

I think the main problem is the rate at which the body can convert fat to energy. The rate is very slow. Dr. Covert Bailey (author of Fit or Fat and a MIT biochemist) has stated that fat burns in the flame of carbohydrate. Think of it as using paper to start a log fire. Any long duration exercise approach would have to include a very low intensity exercise.
For example: This summer I spent two weeks hiking the the White Mountains. I brought enough food to provide 3,500 calories a day and some Androsol. I spent ten to twelve hours a day hiking, some time doing bodyweight and isometric exercises. End result, I lost 15 pounds, only two of which were muscle. Best of Luck.

sorry bud, ketosis isnt magic

When you deplete your body’s glygogen, does it come first from muscle or the liver?

On the other hand when you refill your body’s glycogen, which gets filled up up fist?

I am going to agree with some of the things that have been said. And I will also disagree. I believe that it is possible to lose a pound a day. The question is why. If you have a reasonable response to this then go for it. There are reasons for it, but not many valid. You have to be careful because you can do serious damage to your body. Plus, if you don’t come out of the diet right you are going to gain a lot of weight back. Now, if you are taking Mag-10 or its little brother 4AD-EC, or Primobolan Depot, then you have a good shot at saving muscle, shedding water, dropping fat, and being overall ripped. If you are going to do a fat fast diet, remember not to go to long as you will get into trouble. I am about to start a thread on this very topic.

Maltodextrin and dextrose, after a workout will preferrentially refill muscle glycogen. Depending on how empty stores are, once they max out they will go to liver glycogen. Fructose is preferrentially stored as liver glycogen.