T Nation

Another Newbie Cycle


#1

Hey guys,

I'm really thinking about starting up a AAS cycle. My diet is in check and I have been lifting for about 5 years. I think I need to step it up a notch.

Here is what I have planned out:

Parabolan - wk 1-8 - 50mg EOD
Test Propionate - wk 1-8 - 50mg ED

PCT (Thanks Anthony Roberts for your article on this):

Nolvadex - wk 9-14 - 20mg ED
HCG - wk 9-11 - 500iu ED
Aromasin wk 9-12 - 20mg ED
Vitamin E wk 9-11 - 1000IUs ED

Supplements everyday throughout cycle and PCT:

Tongkat Ali (1200-1600mg of 1:50 extract)
Milk Thistle 1g
Red Yeast Rice w/ CoQ10 (1g total)
Taurine 3g
Multi-Vitamin
Creatine - 3g
Glutamine - 10g

Lastly, I was told about getting Finaplex-H from a vet store and getting a Fina kit (instead of taking Parabolan), but wasn't sure about this. Any thoughts about doing this?

Any help/thoughts about this and my cycle would be appreciated :slight_smile:


#2

Your use of HCG weeks 9-11 seem somewhat foolish to me, it was my understand people use gonadotropin to maintain size of the testes, it is also suppressive to the HPT axis. Maybe you want to rethink when you use that instead of at the end with your novadex....


#3

I thought using Aromasin together with Nolvadex would take care of any problems with HCG.


#4

The PCT that House has outlined is the one that Anthony Roberts has created. I'll PM you the URL for the full article as it's on a competing bodybuilding site.

Tone


#5

What?! That's it? No adivce on my cycle and PCT??? LOL.

Nah, just kidding. Thanks for offering to show him the article on PCT.


#6

Sorry bro.Where's my manners.

I've never used fina, but I hear that it shuts you down hard and fast, so you should always run with test. If you do decide to use fina then you should run your test about 3-4 weeks longer than the fina itself to make PCT more bearable.

I've PM'd you a URL for further info on Fina.

I'm going to use Anthony's PCT with my next cycle (which I'm starting at the end of March).

Tone


#7

Thanks for the URL

So, would you recommend taking Fina for only weeks 1-4 and then take test weeks 1-8, then PCT from there on out??

Would that be okay?


#8

It seems like a nice simple cycle to me. I've heard really good things about the results from Fina. Per milligram it is meant to be 3 times more effective than test esters. Since it is a Class I steroid it stacks well with any Class II like D-Bol or Anadrol, but this of course depends on what you wish to gain from your cycle. you may just want to keep it simple.

Tone


#9

Thanks Tone for your reply. I was thinking about trying a Class II steroid instead of Test (like D-Bol or Anadrol like you mentioned), but someone that I talked to said he stacked Fina and Test Prop together and had no bad side effects at all. Of course, Fina and Test wasn't his beginner's cycle, though. We'll see. Just wasn't sure if Test and Fina could be used as a "beginner's cycle"

Again, thanks for your input :wink:


#10

pretty solid bro. just a few quick things that jumped off the page....

6 weeks of the para and prop will most likely give you the results you are looking for. i guess i'm saying that if it were me, i'd cut the duration to 6 weeks.

3 weeks of 500 IU ED of HCG is asking for trouble IMO. that duration and constant dosage will greatly enhance the possibility of permanent leydig cell damage. even with 8 weeks of para and tren...i doubt HCG is a necessity...scrap it IMO.

just my personal preference, but i think you are better served by running the AI during your cycle...it can be kept in your PCT as well... as already planned. 6 weeks of nolvadex post cyle seems pretty excessive to me...3-4 weeks would do you fine IMO....especially if you cut the cycle duration to 6 weeks and run an AI during, which i think is in your best interest.

good luck bro.


#11

Juice,

What do you think of the rationale behind Anthony's PCT? Have you read his article?


#12

briefly skimmed over it...seems reasonable...seems logical and developed through sound research.......seems like it could work rather well. i just have a problem with HCG use....the risk to benefit ratio is all you really need to consider IMO when talking about HCG.

not attacking Tony's approach at all.....i just think it would be a more successful approach when used after a lengthy, higher dose, long estered AAS cycle...which this cycle is not.

just my 2cc's...take it with a grain of salt....like anything else you would read.


#13

Thanks juice for the input. I was thinking the same thing, since the person who recommended test and prop did a 6 week cycle of both, 2 weeks of PCT, then another 6 week of test and prop, then 2 weeks of PCT. I thought maybe if I stretched it to 8 weeks and then did 6 weeks of PCT I'd be safe.

I guess since test and prop don't aromatize as much as others, I would be fine with less PCT and running the AI through the cycle.

Like Tone said, did you read AR's article? Just curious on your thoughts. AR's article has 37 sources and it seems like everytime he makes a point, he has a source to back it up.

For an example,

"Why don?t we use Clomid, another SERM? Well, basically because it takes much more to do the same thing. In comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone, but Nolvadex also has the added benefit of significantly increasing the LH (Leutenizing Hormone) response to LHRH (LH-releasing hormone) (6). This most likely indicates some kind of upregulation of the LH-receptors due to the anti-estrogenic effect Nolvadex has at the pituitary. Although both Nolvadex and Clomid are both SERMs, they are actually quite different. As you already know, Nolvadex is highly anti-estrogenic at the hypothalamus and pituitary, while Clomid exhibits weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary (7), which as you can guess, is less than ideal. It should be avoided for the PCT I?m suggesting?and in fact, avoided in general?it?s simply not as good as Nolvadex.

Need I even add that the 150mgs of Clomid you need to get the hormonal increase experienced with 20mgs of Nolvadex is much more expensive? So lets dump the Clomid?and no, using it along with Nolvadex will provide no ?synergy? that I?ve ever seen in any relevant study."

Each of the numbers that you see (6 and 7) are sources that he has at the bottom of the article.


#14

Agreed. AR even admits that his PCT recommendation is agressive. I guess this isn't necessary for my cycle.

Again, thanks Juice :slightly_smiling: