T Nation

Another Idiot Newbie Thread, First Cycle Plan

Hello all

I know people would be sick of proof reading peoples first cycle but I have also seen it is important to have a more experienced guy to have a look over it, so here we go.

Age- 27
5’11 230lbs 19%bf
Been training around 8 years
Cycle proposal:
W 1-12 Test E 250mg E3D
W 1-14 Adex 0.5mg E3D (tapered in last 2 weeks to 0.25mg E3D
W 3 -12 HCG 250iu 2x week
W 15 Nolva 40mg/D
W 16 Nolva 20mg/D

Planning on increasing my training volume and eating as much as possible

Let me know if I have messed anything up/ need to add anything

Thanks for the help fellas

I’d leave the AI alone unless you know for certain you need it.


could be a dumb question, but how would I know if I need it? I thought it was necessary to combat gyno issues early

You should spend some more time reading about the drugs you plan to take, possible adverse side effects and how to spot them. Plenty of solid literature as well as bro science to get a feel for what’s to be expected and what might arise.

I think the problem starts here if these are your starting stats. You are for sure well developed if te BF is accurate, but I personally would not start a cycle at 19%. You’ll gain too much fat and it will be detrimental to your goals and to your cycle. E2 management becomes more difficult. Which is the next mistake:

Don’t take an AI before you have high E2 symptoms (bloating, water retention, ED, gyno, emotionality) and don’t take it during the bridge, at least not planned (W13-14).

HCG looks good! I’d use it even earlier though, in week 2 already.

PCT is too short. Go 2 weeks at 40 mg/d and then at least 2 weeks at 20 mg/d.

Test dose looks good too.

Test is good.
Dont take AI without bloodwork. At this dose you will probably need some but without bloodwork you wont know how much, so dont go shooting in the dark or your next topic will be just as cliche as this one : “i think i have low e2, help”.

My opinion - pct is a moronic concept. If you plan on doing steroids, either on or off. Blast and cruise is the way, ir just dont even start. Why do steroids if after PCT all your gains go bye bye?

ok thanks, Will make some changes

will aim to drop some bf before I start. I have read that under 15 % is good to start? or maybe lower?

I’d start at 12% or below so I’d end up at 15-18, depending on how much food is involved.

Cutting to 12% should also not cost you any muscle if done right.

I’d cut to 12%, then give my body a month and hold the weight there and then start your cycle.

Also, you could plan an oral at the end (week 11-14) during your bridge so you’ll not waste two weeks there. But that is nitpicking.

Give us a little better idea of you current muscular development.
Do you have max bench press, squat, and deadlift numbers? Weight at “x” number of reps is okay too. You’re pretty heavy. How many pullups can you do?

How did you determine your % body fat?


Agreed. For 5’11" thats heavy. I’m not calling you out but I would also like to know…

Most people underestimate their BF by a lot on here. You may be the rare exception but even at 19-20% which is normal non athlete BF for a male this would have you carrying a lot of muscle already. Thats a good thing of course, but I agree you need to cut down to at least ~15% before cycling.

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Exactly what I was thinking. I think it is probably higher, as is with most body fat % estimates.

I’m going to have a different take on whether 19% body fat is too much to start taking AAS’s. I don’t care how fat you test out as, but how strong are you?

  • What are the number of reps you can bench press 1.5 times your body weight? 345 lbs.
  • What are the number of reps you can squat 2 times your body weight? 460 lbs.
  • What are the number of reps you can deadlift 2 times your body weight? 460 lbs.

If it is one or less reps, you need a better foundation before taking AAS’s.
An argument can be made that you should be closer to 5 reps to get started.
(If you lag in any one of those, you can use the total of 1265 lbs as the guide.)

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Oh yeaaa, this reminds me of my childhood, yes.
If you came in bloated as fuck(from dbol) all the old guys would give you such hate, if it wasnt know that you have paid the dues(can squat/bench/dead as much as it was believed you are supposed to do). I know its a bit one sided, but i still love this. Even tho i spent my 3rd decade of life doing the opposite, if i could turn back time, with all i know now, i would be emphasizing that shit all the time…

please post a pic

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I don’t agree with this train of thought. I’ve placed well in shows and my bench is not phenomenal. In fact I just hit 300# for the first time ever after using AAS. Depends on goals, strength and bodybuilding can have a linear relationship but your body will max out, otherwise max lifts for everyone would be limitless. Bodybuilding training is much different than chasing 1RM. We’ve all had discussions on here about skinny guys lifting crazy amounts, and huge guys that can’t deadlift.

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1 rep max is not required. Supply the number of reps with a weight will give us an idea what your 1 rep max would be if you tried one. (percentages)

Plus, a weak particular lift can be made up for by the other two lifts. And conversely a freaky strong single lift cannot make up for large weakness in the other two.

But then again, there are well built men who are much weaker than they look. So, there’s that to consider. And I am biased toward power.

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I too don’t understand why you would care what he lifts. If he is not powerlifting this really means nothing in my mind. He did not state his goals other than to get bigger. In my mind his first cycle should be done after his diet, body fat and training consistency are established and in good order.
School me if i’m wrong but I just don’t see where his lift reps come into play?

Personally, I love it but from a different perspective. This particular forum would be emptied out if this is the price of admission to AAS!

I dare not guess what percentage of lifetime natural lifters (let’s say who have 10 years of training under their belt) could accomplish these 3 feats. Especially all the old guys are cleared out!

@RT_Nomad 's risk reduction rule of thumb!! :slight_smile: Too bad many of the BBs get kicked out as well. Have to leave, my joints hurt.


I am curious about his base of strength. If it is not sufficient, his goals can be met without a cycle.

I am not saying you are wrong.

I have been doing this for a very long time. I just need more information to give the best advice. I have seen more than my share of 230lb’ers who have trained for 8 years and would be lucky to have enough muscle (strength) to get a 600 lb total in a power meet. They would have to lose 60 lbs to see what there is to work with.

I really put zero stock in what % body fat a person thinks they have. I could mean nothing. When I was going to college, us fellers would occasionally sit around and brag about how tall we were. As you might guess almost everyone was 6’ tall, or so they proclaimed. The OP couldn’t have picked a more suspicious % body fat than 19%. I’m sure no man wants to admit he is 20% body fat or more.

I believe all the posters on this thread would like to “see” what they are trying to assist. Is he truly a 230lb man with a solid amount of muscle, or is he an unfortunate man with little genetic potential to achieve the goals he desires?