Holden Caulfield wrote:
Holden Caulfield wrote:
Whats your current thinking westclock? Both have been reccomended by yourself before:
75mg hdrol/30mg epi for 6 weeks
100mg hdrol 6 weeks/40mg havoc for 4 weeks
OR 6 weeks straigh 100mg hdrol as a standalone?
EDIT: Anyone elses opinion would be welcome too - general consensus seems to be against a 6 week havoc standalone.
there are much better stacking options than epi/hdrol. those are two very similar compounds in terms of their characteristics and effects and there is little synergy between the two. not to mention theyre both methyls. stacking either compound with tren or 1,4ad would make more sense.
ive seen people run 5 and 6 week epi cycles but they are usually low dosed and produce the same gains as a 4 week cycle at 30 to 40mg.
Thankyou for you opinion, although wrong and backwards in my opinion, you are welcome to it.
Tren is crap, it should never be used by anyone for anything, although technically a type I and not a methyl, which makes it "attractive", tren prohormones are progestin based and are poorly designed nonsense, an insult to the steroid community.
1, 4ad/boldenone derivatives are a very good choice for stacking as it is a type I and not a methyl. But it would make NO sense to stack with epistane.
Two type I's will simply compete and a portion of each product will be wasted. This is the simple logic between trying to use a type I and II.
Now boldenone derivatives would work just fine stacked with hdrol, and their non-methyl nature would be a plus
And unfortunately its cost is too absurd to actually dose high enough to see benefits over other compounds.
Im not sure how you are determining synergy, as Im quite sure you do not know how either compound functions.
If you are referring to the fact that they are both "dry" this means nothing, nor does it indicate their method of action in the body. How they feel does not determine anything about their anabolic qualities.
The old "stacking wet with dry" thing is simply a "bro science" attempt to match type I's to type I's by feel.
The technically strongest effective stack of two currently available prohormones would be pheraplex and superdrol.
A poor choice for most, but I have seem other things done, such as mixing hdrol + superdrol and pheraplex.
This triad is technically superior to running just pheraplex and superdrol, but seems absurd to buy THREE prohormones.
Running a lower dose of hdrol combined with a lower dose of superdrol would be comparable to the same toxicity as a higher dose of just superdrol or just hdrol
The gains could be better or worse, superdrol is a stronger compound, but its method of action in the body at higher doses may simply drop to diminishing returns, in which case another drug of the same type but different action would have better results.
Epistane and hdrol are chosen because it will produce fairly high strength gains, clean muscle gains (in other words not simply water retention in the muscles), and because both compounds have very mild side effects if any at all. And the fact that although methylated neither compound is excessively toxic compared to many, run responsibly for a short duration...
It is an "acceptable" risk in my opinion, if you decide otherwise, I certainly would not try to talk anyone into it, health is very important, and I would no be the one who deals with any unexpected consequences.
Hdrol seems to have a benefit as far as cardiovascular capacity is concerned and epistane does not interfere with the cardiovascular system's capacity as do many steroids, aka dbol, drol, m1t,etc.
I chose to recommend epistane over boldenone derivatives for stacking with hdrol simply beacause the strength increases are greater, and the drug itself is so MUCH CHEAPER.
But if your willing to buy the absurd amounts of bold required for it to actually be effective, then certainly its a very fine choice.
Bold with superdrol would be dandy
Epistane and superdrol would work fine as well...although riskier than epi/hdrol
As would bold with m1t, or bold with hdrol, or epi and m1t.
etc, etc, etc.
There are many possibilities. I chose hdrol and epistane because both are cheap, effective, common, good quality drugs compared to many prohomrones, and neither is prone to sideffects.
It is a comfrotable, effective stack that is cheap, a middle ground if you will, certainly safer stacks exist, or stronger stacks, or cheaper stacks, etc.
You can trade cost for safety, effectiveness for safety, sideffects for effectiveness, cost for sideffects, the list goes on.
There are excessive numbers of effective combinations.
This one is simply a recommendation of a potentially effective cycle, it by no means the "best possible stack".
To answer the other question, of those proposed cycles: 100mg hdrol 6 weeks/40mg havoc for 4 weeks
would probably be the "strongest".
I see no real danger in running the havoc for 6 weeks as well, but its certainly up to you.
Caution is always a good thing, but liver toxicity, purposefully, is overstated by us, and others to keep users safe.
ill agree with most of trens being an unknown or even garbage. whether or not these truely are progestins in the first place is something ive yet to see and i think 17b methoxy tren is a little more worth it than the estra-4, 9 tren im assuming your referring to. i also agree that 1,4ad is an excellent compound but expensive to run at an effective dose.
what i disagree with is putting steroids into these two classes, i think its flawed and outdated. there are studies showing that these "class II" compounds will, in vivo, act on the androgen receptor. knowing that, you almost have to use a little broscience and take real world results into account when thinking about synergy.
why dont i like epi/hdrol? almost every log ive seen using this stack had results equivalent to running one of the compounds solo. plus its hell on your joints. if OP is open to stacking methyls, i think epi/m1,4add would be better but you may disagree since the wet/dry stacking theory is "broscience" (which itself is subjective as a lot of people still use these stacks with a lot of success).
also, why do you suggest stacks like Bold/SD and epi/SD if you follow the classification system? wouldnt those stacks both be competing for the AR?