T Nation

Another ED and Test Dosage Thread

I am 32, recovering alcoholic and drug addict 7 years clean but due to some of the drugs I did I have suffered from ED. Got my blood work done had the test level of 300. Doc wouldn’t put me on TRT because I am still within normal range so I put myself on lol.

Started at 150 a week 2x injections 75x2 within like a week ED went away and my sex drive was through the fucking roof. Left it there for roughly a month. I felt better but still had mood swings and felt irritable. Upped my dose to 200 June 5th and honestly have felt WAAy better mentally mood is soo much more stable now. Still injecting 2x a week at 100 per injection. I would say about a week after upping my dose I noticed my ED came back actually worse than before. Like to the point I could not even get an erection period no matter how hard i tried.

Past couple days though I am noticing my sex drive is returning I am horny all the time it’s literally all I think about, Erections are improving but not to where they were at 150. Would you suggest wait? I really don’t want to lower back to 150 because of how good I feel mentally on 200 and at 200 my lifts are actually starting to feel lighter in the gym.

My thinking is give it more time since I am already seeing improvements I am probably heading in the right track. I havent gotten blood work done since upping to 200. After being on 150 for a month total test went from 300 to 422. My friends that are knowledgable when it comes to TRT told me for my size 150 really isnt enough. I am 6’4 225lbs pretty lean visible 8 pack. Extremely vascular. I did not get estrogen checked because I didn’t know much but plan on doing so next blood test.

Also I was wondering, I usually have like 1 cheat meal a week which is a large pizza and ice cream. Just wondering I have heard the more fat you take in the more likely your body is to convert test to estrogen. Should I be concerned about that and perhaps cut out the 1 pizza a week? Other than that diet is very clean. I follow Stan Efferding’s vertical diet. Like I said I am very lean.

Also I have never been on AI’s and would really rather stay away from them as I know is recommended here as well as by everyone I talk to. My Test usage is mainly for TRT but I do wanna improve body composition as well as strength in the gym as well. One of the main reasons I knew I was low aside aside from ED is because I have been lifting for about 7 years and while my body composition has improved greatly I am extremely weak for the amount of time I have been lifting and find it extremely hard to gain strength and as I said my diet is extremely on point and I do follow a very good proven powerlifting program.

Total T in the absence of Free T isn’t going to be very informative since it’s the free portion of testosterone in the blood that matters. Focusing on Free T levels, not dosages will get you to where you need to be.

If you haven’t tested SHBG before starting TRT, I suggest that you do in order to know if you are on the correct protocol. If you have low or high SHBG, the protocol would be very different between the two. If lower SHBG, then the frequency of injections likely needs to increase and smaller dosages per injection.

The smaller doses usually will see estrogen decrease, larger infrequent doses usually see estrogen increase and larger swing in levels which isn’t always optimal.

  • Tests needed to balance all hormones that affect erections and libido.

Total T
Free T
Estrogen sensitive

Explain how SHBG will affect the protocol, because at the end of the day, it won’t.

If you have HIGH SHBG you’ll need much more T than most people because your T is bound. You’ll still do well with daily shots. You’ll still increase dose until your symptoms resolve.

If you have LOW SHBG you will metabolize it quicker and be a hyper excretor because it is not bound. You’ll still do well with daily shots. You’ll still increase dose until your symptoms resolve.

So… Explain what difference it makes? None.

You mentioned in a earlier post that low SHBG men metabolize and/or excrete testosterone more quickly, then state the above quote and you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

This is the reason why low SHBG men on average do much better on more frequent dosing, Dr. Saya director of Defy Medical who has had over 10,000 patients has noticed the same. I will say Dr. Saya isn’t fond of Dr Keith Nichols and believe he is reckless for his position on not caring about CBC and ignoring E2.

We simply don’t have long term data on very high E2 levels in men. We are in uncharted territory here.

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I’ll say 1 thing. It was this forum and the group mentality led by ksman that turned many of us to ai. And I fell for it too. All ive seen is guys go on never ending rollercoasters on the ai. And they never dial in.

For the past year we have changed that.

Every Dr I went to thought I was crazy asking for an AI. They said you don’t need it and they don’t worry about it unless it gets real high.

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Two things:

  1. It’s true that lower SHBG guys do best with more frequent injections. It’s virtually required. However high SHBG guys also do best with more frequent injections but it isn’t AS neccessary. In each case you are increasing dose to resolve symptoms so it makes no difference at the end of the day.

  2. Here’s something I guess you don’t know either: Dr Saya does NOT take an AI. He stopped taking it quote some time ago and is coming around that E2 is not the devil after all. He just doesn’t want to start telling all his patients that he was wrong. I know this for a FACT.

Don’t take me seriously. Doesn’t change my life in the slightest. If I help even one person here it will have been worth my time. My time here is short. I can’t continue to devote so much time to it as I’m the admin of Steven’s Facebook group. I’ve already stayed way longer than I had planned. Yes, I realize you’re looking forward for me to leave lol. Don’t worry, it will be soon.

Bingo. Dr cristler same thing.

Btw if an not mistaken I think defy still prescribes the .125 mg compounded from empower but tells patient only if needed.

Seems like they like to keep empower in business.

Not really. We welcome this. I also don’t have Facebook and never will. You have a Twitter handle?

No twitter unfortunately.

Here’s something else from Defy which I know for a FACT. If you can demonstrate back or joint pain you can request nandrolone (deca) and they will write you a prescription for it. Defy will not last long. Mark my words.

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Greed…

:moneybag::moneybag::moneybag::moneybag:

Thank you! And congrats on the 6 years yourself! Unfortunately where I am and my primary care doctor is a real by the book type. I have 300 total test and the recommended where I am is 280-870 even though honest to god the 280-300 mark is for people that are like 100 years old lol. I found some TRT clinics near me but I shit you not they want a 2k a year membership fee and only administer 1 shot a month. I am much better off just doing it myself and going to walk in clinics for my blood work and getting knowledge from you guys.

I have heard of doing daily or even every other day injections. A guy at my gym told me about this. He also told me even for people doing test to run a cycle TRT dosing is very good and the people I talk to are very knowledgable and know more is not always better. From what I have heard though through all of my research is that Subq injections of test usually leads to infections and lumps in the skin because there just isn’t enough blood to move the oil around so it just sits there. Again I am no expert and have never experienced it myself but that’s what I have heard from the majority of people I have talked to along with the articles I have read.

Let me ask you something though. You say your test was real low. Were you experiencing ED and if so how long did it take for the TRT to help the situation? I have read some articles online saying it can take up to 6 months.

Subq is done by vast majority of men I know including myself. No issues unless you inject larger amounts which can cause nodules. It’s not an infection… Just a small lump that goes away within a few days.

I had every symptom under the sun. Wasted three and a half years of my life with bro science protocols. Once I got optimized it took about two months for all symptoms to vanish.

I too read all the KSMAN posts about E2 needing to be 20’s or you instantly die a brutal death. I wish there would be some way to put a disclaimer on his old posts that this is no longer the group conscience although that probably opens up a can of worms which is probably why it hasn’t been done. I’m guessing KS isn’t here anymore because of the change because it seemed like he was worshipped as a God with the AI, iodine and body temp garbage. Anyways, rant over. I’m just butt hurt that I crashed my E2 and even then thought it was high E2 problems back when I had just started TRT.

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So do you do daily injections or every other day? Also for sub q injections what length needle do you use? I am assuming you use 27 guage? I actually already use 27 as recommended by my friend because it’s a much smaller needle, much less injection site pain but I use 1 inch. I am assuming that’s way too long for Subq.

You are totally right. @Chris_Colucci should remove the pinned posts in the about t category. About the T Replacement Category and archive them.
There is way too much inaccurate information in there.
Oh crap Chris. Just noticed you are in Long island. Me too.

Many months ago we did remove 1mg ai per 100 mg testosterone.
It used to be a bullet here

For subq 1/2" length is good… 27’s work well… You can use 30’s if you’re patient as it takes a while to push the oil through. But doable.

I’ve actually never struggled with ED. Even with low T I had no issues. I have a bag of powdered cialis in my kitchen that would probably last for years but I never use the shit. I have had some bouts of ED since starting TRT though. I chalk it up to the changes going on in my body. Its gone up and down. There are telemedicine options. I’m currently with Defy which is very cheap. I do bloodwork through my doctor which is way cheaper then Defy, so I just pay for the medication and consultations through them. I froze sperm before I started, so no need for HCG. I also will not be going down the AI route. The endless struggle to balance numbers sounds ridiculous. Some of the posts on here have turned me off to that completely. I will just allow my body to get used to having a bit more estrogen. I also just switched to daily subq because of @dbossa and some of the other guys on here. I’m 140mg weekly so I will be doing 20mg daily. I just started that protocol today.

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Post back in a few weeks and report how you’re feeling.

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Twice in one week I agree with Systemlord. Now that is amazing.

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Yes sir! Will do!