T Nation

Another Depression Thread


This ones going to be a little bit differentâ?¦. I wanted to put this on T-Nation because itâ??s the site I'm most familiar with and I'm aware of what posters know their stuff. Anyways, I made a thread about depression a few years ago asking for advice about medication. Well, I have tried a lot of different medications and nothing has worked. Iâ??ve tried Zoloft, Prozac, luvox, abilify, cymbalta, klonopin, xanax, clonidine, wellbutrinâ?¦

I have been going to therapy for about 2 years and mostly tried CBT. I have done group therapy as well. In addition, I have went to a hospital for a week where we were taught various methods of self help. I have read a few books related to the topic but they didnâ??t seem to strike me in any way. Exercise doesnâ??t help, eating clean doesnâ??t help. Usually I have to force myself to go to the gym and just go through the motions, which makes me only angrier at myself. I always do cardio at the gym though which my therapists say is best. Tried supplementing with fish oil, vitamin D, and a multi. My depression was so bad that I dropped out of college, so I have been getting plenty of sleep now that I am home. I got a job which forces me to interact with people even if itâ??s just say hello to a customer. Iâ??m sure there are other things I have tried, but basically nothing works.

Sure If I do everything right I may feel a little better briefly (if I have a good workout usually). But at the end of the day Iâ??m still feeling hopeless, depressed, and like there is no reason for me to keep living. I donâ??t know what is keeping me going. Iâ??m so tired and have no energy the whole day (partly due to the fact that Iâ??m on 4 medications). I have no interest or motivation for anything and I really donâ??t know what to do. People try to show that they care and it just does not register with me. Iâ??m emotionally vacant sometimes..where its nothing but depression. So basically what Iâ??m wondering isâ?¦what do you do when nothing seems to work? Embrace it? Realize that it wonâ??t get better and just keep going?


Get off all the meds, start taking some T-replacement shit and try getting your hands on some good LSD. Serious, give the acid a try. It's not going to kill you and it's actually been clinically shown in its earlier stages of experimentation in the 1930s and 1940s to have some therapeutic value. Do it under supervision, like with some friends who are experienced with it.

On a related note, if you smoke weed or drink at all I would stop immediately.


Do you feel as if your perceptions on life and the views you may have become a cyclical factor in the depression or is it purely based on symptoms alone? I think the emotional numbness may be a part of being on meds also you may be having some dissociation as a sort of defense mech that can be activated from the brain under extreme stress.. I was on Gabapentin, Celexa, and Ativan before for anxiety and I dealt with severe dissociation or de personalization as well that just naturally came with it as it got really bad. I did however fully recover and wean off all medication over a year ago and though it was not easy it required a complete shift internally.. I always had anxiety since a young kid and it got increasingly worse as I got older until it got to the point where it felt that I couldn't live like everyone else, it felt like I was dreaming and everything felt so fake and superficial it just didn't feel fully authentic and real. I got seriously involved in spirituality as a result practiced contemplation, meditation and self inquiry to become liberated because for me there was no other option had a pretty intense extensional crisis as a result and eventually just fell into grace. I am shortening the whole process but in all seriousness it was the hardest thing I ever had to go through. I literally felt at one point that the amount of emotional and psychological distress from it all must have been up there with the suffering that was befallen in Auschwitz I know that sounds going far but believe me if someone was in my shoes they would better get a feel of what I mean, my mind went literally crazy and crumbled apart as I was the witnessing presence that was watching as it all melted away.

Anyways I found why the anxiety happened in the first place and after being on medication for six years and seeing it did nothing I went to a much deeper place to find the end of suffering in a Buddha Esque driven fury and found the end of suffering, realizing that the whole thing was totally made up the entire time it was only my identification bondage with the mind that brought suffering and kept the entire play of identification and ignorance. It kept the sense of "I" in limited potential and illusive suffering. Anyways I will try not to ramble too much because if a person is not ready to hear these things I can appear like a rambling mad man however you can drop all suffering if you choose so long as you are willing to let go of everything, that much I know. It is nice and easy to live life and not question the important things but when it turns into a nightmare and there is serious pain this is a like a huge push to come out of the dream like state and back into actual reality once again.

It is what happened for me and I feel as if you would overcome this all if you had an ear to listen and were willing to give it a shot. There was no other option for me and I probably would not be here if I didn't find a way out of that nightmarish hell most people think is reality. Since you're situation seems similar to how mine was, in that nothing else helped and it only seemed to get worse, until I had literally been forced into a corner from it all and came out of denial of any sense of control and into spontaneous surrender through extreme and utter defeat.


Here is one more thing that may help.

DIVINE SUICIDE: Depressive Breakdown as a Call to Awakening

by Jeff Foster, July, 2012

‎?Take me out to Cypress Hill in my car. And we?ll hear the dead people talk. They do talk there. They chatter like birds on Cypress Hill, but all they say is one word and that one word is ?live,? they say ?Live, live, live, live, live!?? It?s all they?ve learned, it?s the only advice they can give. Just live. Simple! A very simple instruction??

  • from ?Orpheus Descending?, Tennessee Williams

I was speaking recently with a woman who was planning her own suicide. She had spent the past few weeks sorting out her finances, paying off her debts, and trying to find foster parents for her young daughter, who would be left motherless after she killed herself. So many people had tried to intervene, but her mind was made up. She was definitely going to die. She had been threatening it for years, but finally it was coming true.

Her friends and family were starting to panic. I agreed to speak with her.

?That?s it. I?m done here. My time on earth is over?, she told me, point blank, at the start of our one-to-one session. Everything had become such a burden to her ? her job, her so-called-friends, her failed relationships, her own brilliant but overactive mind, even her beloved daughter. It was all just too much. She was in so much pain, totally drained, fed up and exhausted from trying to help everybody all the time, and never getting anything back. She was the one who gave everything to everyone, but who ever gave anything to her? Where was gratitude? Where was love? Even her young daughter was just ?take-take-take? ? her demands were incessant. The only way out of this hell was death. Suicide was the logical solution to the problem of living. Her life insurance policy would be generous to her bereaved family.

I let her talk and talk. She had a lot to say, and I said very little. I simply got on her side, saw and felt things the way she did, allowed her to experience what she was experiencing, and allowed her experience to become mine, intimately so. It was easy, since I have known well that place of total exhaustion, that place where ?I?ve been trying so hard to save others and have received nothing back?, that desperation to die (or at least to end the burden of living), and also the sense of guilt and terrible sadness that arises from imagining loved ones trying to go on without me.

I stayed close. I did not try to play ?spiritual teacher?, ?expert on suicide prevention? or even ?therapist?. I certainly did not lecture her about nonduality, the absence of the self, the perfect perfection of perfect awareness, or the non-existence of the ?I?. We did not get into intellectual discussions about the Absolute and the Relative, the illusion of free will or the ins and outs of Oneness. I did not try to fix her, to mend her, or even to ?save? her. I simply listened to her. I wanted to learn from her, not teach her or feed her new beliefs. What was it like, exactly where she was, right now?

I joined the ?Our Lives Are Exhausting And We Want To Be Free From It All? Club. We were the exhausted ones, the unloved ones, the ones who nobody appreciated, the ugly ones, the overweight ones, the ones on the verge of collapse, the ones who wanted to die. The ones who nobody understood. I wonder if anyone had ever truly met her there before? I wondered if everyone she had talked to over the years about her desire to die ? therapists, friends, family ? had just been trying to save her, to fix her, to get her to stay alive and live in the old way, rather than meeting her in her pain and desperation and validating her present-moment experience. Had anyone ever truly met her? Or had they been driven away by her self-pity and anger, or perhaps their own discomfort and frustrated desires to help?

We talked for about three hours. The more we talked, the more I simply stood in her shoes, listening and seeing things from her perspective, being with her without trying to fix her or make her wrong or even right, the more she relaxed and opened up about her true longings and hidden dreams and desires. What became clear was this: Secretly, she did not want to die at all. She knew, deep down, that who she truly is ? consciousness itself ? cannot die. She knew that only the false can die. Only an image of herself can die. Only dreams can die.

What she really longed for was not physical death, not the death of the body, not the end of breathing, not the cessation of the heartbeat, but the death of the false self, the death of the pretence, the death of falseness and inauthenticity. The second-hand, limited ?self? she was pretending to be ? the Real Estate queen, the selfless giver, the one who ?fit in? with others, the brilliant one with the ?16 track mind? as she put it ? was utterly false. Her life as it was playing itself out was suffocating her, and until this point, she had only seen death, and foster homes, and life insurance policies, and psychological escape, as the solution.

It soon became clear that this woman, although ?dying? on the outside, had a rich, creative inner life that had simply never been given expression. On the inside, she was so very alive, so open to life, so sensitive to everything around her, so ?wide angle? as she put it, so ?connected to everything and everyone?. She was a force of nature, a wild and free spirit that had totally limited itself over the years, constrained itself to ?fit in? to some second-hand idea of what is normal, or right, or proper, or true. She had been living ?the wrong life?, so to speak, a dead and deadening life, a life of money and numbers and predictability, and it was crushing this inner explorer, this adventurer, this poet, this visionary, this seer, this spiritual seeker, this big-hearted pilgrim that she was.

The limited self longed to die, and the ?Big Self? as she put it, longed to break free. And although this is not my language (I rarely talk about Big Self or Being Aligned With The Universe), I knew that to truly meet her, I had to get into her world, into her language, and stay there, and not flinch for one moment.

The more she felt heard and understood, the more she was met without judgement, the more she relaxed, and the more she started to talk openly about her secret longing to travel, to explore, to ride out into the unknown without a map. She talked with increasing passion about those times in the past where she had felt free and alive and unburdened. There was a longing to return to that simplicity. There was a fire in her, a raging furnace of love that had been suffocated all those years in her attempts to ?fit in?.

Her suicidal depression had really been a signpost to life! The pain of life-suffocation had appeared to her as the raging desire for death. But it was not really the desire for death, was it? It was the desire for life! For more life! She longed to live, to really live, to no longer suffocate under the weight of the false image. Only one who longed to live could experience such an overwhelming urge to die. She longed with every cell of her body to end the pretence and the falseness and half-lived dreams and to open up to life in all its rawness and beauty ? not to die, not to die, but to live in a real way.

What would real, fearless living look like? She had a brilliant mind, and a wide-open heart, all of which had been suffocated and wasted in the business of Real Estate. We started to explore the very realistic possibility of her selling her house and setting off into the unknown with her beloved daughter (?my angel, sent from heaven?). She had always longed to travel to New Zealand, to work there, to build a life there, to live a more simple and truthful existence there, and to expose her daughter to soul-enriching people and landscapes and possibilities. Could her dream become a reality? Was that possible?

She loved her little daughter so much, that was clear. She wanted her daughter to live and flourish and learn truth, that was clear. If she were to put her daughter into a foster home and then kill herself ? which had been her plan for years, up until now ? she would be teaching limitation to the one she loved more than anything. She would teach something false, something untrue. She would teach closing-off to possibility rather opening up. She would teach death, not life. She would not be teaching the deep truth of herself.

Suicide would be a false teaching, a false way of living and not living, and she knew this in the very depths of her being.

If she did not kill herself, if she let the body live, if instead she killed this inauthentic self, and stopped pretending to be the one she was not, and left this job and this life that was crushing her spirit, and set off into the unknown, and open up to the mysteries of the universe, she may finally become the mother (and sister, and daughter, and friend, and lover) she always longed to be ? the one who taught and lived fearlessness, and realness, and life, and never-giving-up, even when exhausted. She would no longer be the ?exhausted one longing for freedom from all responsibility?. She would be totally, completely, unbelievably responsible in the full sense of the word ? able to respond authentically to life, to herself, to her daughter. Able to answer the call that she had been denying for so long.

It was disregarding life?s call that had hurt so much over the years. Life will not be silenced. The longing for death, the certainty of suicide, was really life screaming at her one last time. ?LIVE! LIVE!?

Would she listen to its scream, now, at the point where everything was nearly lost?

Suddenly, everything became so clear. There was no longer any choice. She knew what to do. She knew what life was telling her. She had always known. Yes, she was going to kill herself? but not in the way the mind had imagined. She was going to kill her old self, her limited self, her false self. That was the real suicide! That was the call of life! She was going to break up with a life that had become meaningless, empty, and most importantly not right for her and her loved ones ? a life that had turned her into something she couldn?t bear ? and set out into the unknown, with her beloved daughter, their hearts wide open to possibility. This was not a mental decision. This was not a conclusion based on fear. This was total relief. This was sinking into the deep truth of herself. This was a deep honouring of life. This was deep rest.

Her brilliant ?mind? had only been able to conclude ?death?. It had thought there was a choice between ?life? and ?death?, and it had chosen ?death?. But what did it know? The truth of her being was saying only one thing: LIVE. The mind would never understand this.

There was no choice but to live.


The following morning, I learnt that her adventure had already begun. She was already finding herself boxing things away, making arrangements, selling unwanted possessions, preparing for a new life, a life of freedom and possibility and newness. She was no longer preparing for death, but for more life. It was still suicide, but a divine kind of suicide ? the suicide of the false, by the false. She, however, had so much to do, so many plans to make, so much to sort out ? much like before ? but now she was no longer exhausted, no longer depressed by it all, since finally all of her ?doing? was truthful ? she was doing what she loved, and she was no longer waiting for others to ?give back? to her.

Her relationship with her daughter had shifted overnight. It had become clear: her daughter was not ? and had never been ? an annoying ?block? to her freedom, a drain on her energies, a reason for her suicide. Her daughter was her companion, her fellow traveller, part of this divine suicide! Her daughter was no longer ?getting in the way? of the life she longed for ? she was now part of that very life. It was no longer ?my life? versus ?her life? ? there was simply life. This life. Our life.

I had not taught this woman anything. I had not really ?done? anything at all. I have no clever psychological theories. I had simply listened deeply to her, reminding her of what she had always known, reflecting her own deep truth back at her, so she could actually hear it for once. Out of devastation, out of total breakdown, her truth had been given the space to emerge.

It?s interesting that the word ?depressed? is spoken phonetically as ?deep rest?. We can view depression not as a mental illness, but on a deeper level, as a profound (and very misunderstood) state of deep rest, entered into when we are completely exhausted by the weight of our own (false) story of ourselves. It is an unconscious loss of interest in the second-hand ? a longing to ?die? to the false. This longing needs to be honoured, not medicated, meditated or analysed away.

It?s amazing what can evolve naturally when depression and the desire for suicide (which is the desire for the deep rest of yourself) are truly honored, met, embraced, held, and you do not flinch from pain or turn away from it. It?s amazing what can happen when you actively listen to the one in front of you from a loving place of non-judgemental acceptance, trusting the intelligence of life itself, and allowing the divine and loving suicide of awakening to weave its mysterious magic.


Will try ASAP. Moderate cocaine use can't hurt either right???


My views on life are certainly a factor in my depression. Although I have to say, I have seen some of your posts before about this topic and really just can't wrap my head around it. I mean I understand what you are saying, but I just don't see how I can get rid of my suffering if I choose to do so.. I understand it is a process and not instant, but if I could choose to not feel like shit I would have..


Lol this is all low testosterone bullshit. I can't help you and I don't have the faintest fucking idea on what to do but I feel your pain.


The reason I asked about your views is because most anxiety and depression stems from disorted or irrational views or beliefs that people carry around sometimes unconsciously.. For example a feeling of unworthiness, loneliness, low self worth, etc.. Yeah I totally understand that man I feel like its easier to explain to a person more intuitively one on one. It is not like okay I will drop it now and be fine thats not what I meant, what you would actively do is let go of all struggling and resistance at first. You would do nothing to push any of the feelings or thoughts away and not cling to feeling any certain way, there would be 100% Acceptance of whatever is going on with each moment without being introverted and analyzing everything that is going on. The other part would be a self inquiry into any thoughts or beliefs that come with the emotions that cause you to go into emotional confliction. So if there was some hidden pain from a past experience or some held perception you look into it and start to break down the identification. To break down the observation you start to watch the thinker and try and feel into that awareness behind all the thoughts and sensations, after there a self inquiry would take place, how do I know these thoughts are true? From who do these thoughts belong to? what do these thoughts mean? The idea behind this is it creates a dis identification between you and the thinking mind (ego) it creates a disconnect between held perceptions and beliefs and you as a totality... Any emotion that causes a person to go into emotional confliction has a story that comes either before or after the emotion and always is inseparable and the cause of the emotions in the first place, in this sense then it is seen that ego is the source of suffering because it is what constantly re traumatizes a person and keeps what is familiar alive through belief in certain held perceptions... Some people actually feel more comfortable being with immense suffering and conflict of the mind more then really working on letting it all drop because of a fear of the unknown, they may feel although in pain at least they know what is going on creating a false sense of control. They would rather be in where they are with structure and security then risk the loss of identity that happens when everything is stripped away from them. There is also a contemplation into the thinking mind alone such as sitting with certain questions not seeking an answer or analyzing it, just letting it rest in the silence of your awareness and bringing into attention until it absolves into the silence and with it a sense of inner peace and dis identification from thought patterns and deep insight. Some you could use, "there is no such thing as an absolutely true thought.", "suffering occurs when you believe in a thought that is at odds with what is, what was, or what may be.' "to be happy is to live as the unknown", "Deeper understanding and insight flow from a quiet mind.", You are not your story, they are not your story about them, the world is not your story about the world." then there is meditation which creates some time to allow something deeper to shift within and a complete surrender of what is, and to create another dis identification from the thinking mind and you as a sense of being.

The first meditation is an eyes open one this is where we observe the sense perceptions in our surrounding environment. Instead of analyzing, evaluating though our attention should be on the watcher that is within our eyes and not the object of consciousness, instead the silence and watching awareness that is not evaluating or judging any of the experience that is going on. This deepens a part of a persons awareness and should come with a deep sense of inner joy and peace. this is something a person can do consciously through out the day as they are out and about.

The second meditation is with the eyes closed, this is where you just watch thoughts come by and let them be as clouds passing through as you are the sky that embodies all and remains unaffected, do not judge or think about anything just let it all pass through, eventually as the mind becomes more still ask the question "I wonder what my next thought will be?". This is a very difficult question for the mind to answer since mind does not know what the next thought is. Our mind thinks randomly so, therefore, cannot answer this question. Since it is unable to answer, it will quiet down. We need to jump in between the gap of the TWO thoughts and just be a watcher there. The watcher of nothingness. Be the watcher of this silence and hold it as much as possible. In the beginning, it could be a few seconds; however, by and by, the gap will get larger and larger and, finally, one day you will see for yourself what you needed to see. Suddenly, through this silent nothingness, anything that is not real and is not you, such as your thoughts, your feelings, your false identity, your belongings, your relatives and your friends will drop.

Now you are facing the real you which is the awareness of this pure silence. Now, for the first time, you know who you really are. The silence works like a mirror, so that the Truth could recognize itself in that mirror. The silence and peace is the reflection of the Truth and not the Truth itself. This is so important to recognize. The Truth will be realized as powerful, blissful and eternal. It does not come and go, it has been always here during the thoughts or no thoughts, but it was overlooked.

This feeling is a thousand times more powerful and real that the first meditation of simply watching the witness of eyes open meditation. This is just like walking into a dark room. At the beginning, we cannot see anything; however, by and by, due to the light of the moon from the window and adjusting of our eye, we will be able to identify the items in the room after a minute or two. This clarity happens during meditation. At the beginning, it is dark and unfamiliar. As your patience deepens with time, the feelings open up to you.

the final stage here is after this meditation, you become the watcher of this nothingness, Try to �?�¢??turn upon yourself.�?�¢?? This means, try to be the Watcher of this Watcher. Be the observer of this observer. At the beginning it will be difficult; however, by practicing, it will happen. This is ultimate peace and Truth.

It will be seen that when the mind is resting in peace, all that is left is the eternal Truth, which is not coming and going. The Truth will be defined in you, as one fact that can't be negated. It cannot be cancelled. Tried to cancel yourself and see if you are successful. The Truth has always been here. It has this feeling of "I-Am-ness".

This is a kind of cyanide for ego and will cause a huge internal shift within yourself to drop any and everything you have ever identified with, you will lose your beliefs, opinions, taught knowledge, history, stories, and most importantly you will lose yourself. This is what happens because after the shift occurs you know that there is just no thought that you can absolutely believe for sure, the mind then becomes a tool to use only for practical thinking and is no longer filled with long held perceptions that cause suffering and beliefs that create a strong pull of separation between you and everything that is reality. You have to lose the sense of a false and illusive self to end the constant cycle of pain that comes with identification with ego and belief. It is literally like waking out of a dream of deep sleep thats why it is called awakening, suddenly you become one with what is and there is no longer a sense of little psychological "me" that has its comings and goings and suffering, it is seen through that all that was made up there was never a sense of you in the first place, that it was all just a result of conditioning which wrapped consciousness up in the thinking mind. You become the unconditioned just like that of a new born infant.

Had to jumble some stuff around and copied down some of my teachers writing so I hope it flows well and makes more sense for you.. It really is not complicated it just takes a willingness to do it and a leap into the unknown, one where truth is far more valuable to you then that of comfort, security, and feeling good. With awakening there is no held perception and belief whether it be positive or negative it is seen as illusive and disregarded. There is no suffering because there is no identity.

You ask: When I am free of the idea I have of who I am or who I should be, do emotions still come?

Yes, even feelings of sadness or agitation may come but they will be momentary; they won't be overwhelming because for emotions or thoughts to overwhelm, you have to be somebody. It is the sense of being a person that gives fire to them. But you are the presence not the person.

Thoughts and emotions have to strike against the idea of a person and then something, a noise, will spark off. But when there is no person, itâ??s like having a match with nothing to strike against.

~ Mooji

book might help as well... http://www.adyashanti.org/wayofliberation/


There's a book called "The Spirituality of Imperfection" that helped me to accept, then change the way I say myself and my surroundings. Even if that isn't a problem, it's still a damn good read.


Sorry. That was supposed to be an edit.


I have a pretty decent understanding of the way you feel right now. I'm not too far from that myself. I'm now at nearly 2 years of CBT therapy, went through a number of drugs which were ineffective, and found a couple over the counter things that helped a bit. (Phosphatidyl Serine, in the form of a Phosphatidyl Serine Complex; and Bacopa Monnieri.)

What I do know is that while things are awful right now, they have no chance of actually getting better if they just end. I'm not convinced they're going to get better than they are, but I know there's no chance if I call it quits.

One thing I did find helped at least for a bit, when I was able to do it, was the first couple "lessons" in the HemiSync Gateway Experience. They helped me get into a place where my body could relax, and my mind could just observe and watch what's happening in my head. I have a feeling that a lot of "work" can be done in that state, to change your outlook on life. I haven't done much work there myself, so I can't vouch for long term benefits. I just think it might be worth looking into.

What I recommend:
Wave I CD 1 - Orientation
Wave I CD 2 - Introduction to Focus 10
Wave I CD 3 - Advanced Focus 10 -- these three will get you into that basic useful stage
Wave I CD 4 - Release and Recharge -- this provides just one example of the kind of psychological "work" you can do in that state
Wave II CD 1 - Introduction to Focus 12 -- I got into this state once or twice, but I have trouble not falling asleep

You can do those in order, advancing when you feel you've relatively mastered each stage. They go a lot deeper than that through the whole "course", but that's as far as I've gotten, and I've gotten SOME benefit from it. I highly recommend spending some time with it.

You can find these with a simple "HemiSync Gateway Experience torrent" search. Or, of course, you can buy it.

But I think the answer is probably somewhere along what cstratton is saying... I just haven't gotten anywhere near there myself, except for the occasional moment here and there. A lot of the meditative exercises he's explained are really pretty much the same thing the HemiSync courses take you through... it's just guided, and using binaural beats to induce some deeper relaxed states.


OP, what do you think is the cause of your depression? I couldn't see that you'd mentioned that.

When I've been depressed, its been because of my circumstances at the time. The upside for me at those times has been that once my circumstances have changed, I have started to feel better. However, that's not to say that I haven't found it hard to get out of the place that i've been in, I kind of find depression (for me at least) to be a vicious cycle, leading me to feel worse and worse. And because that's how i feel all the time, it is more difficult to break out of it.

I know that St John's Wort has supposedly been discredited in a lot of studies but it seemed to work for me - who knows it could have just been the placebo effect.

Do you think there is there anything you can change in your life that would make you stop feeling this way?


Sure, go ahead and jest. If I were you, I'd be trying every possible remedy out there, cocaine not included.

But there is actually a lot of clinical evidence to suggest that LSD can be used to treat depression. You're young, you've tried all sorts of other chemical solutions, I assume you don't use other drugs or drink, you're at an age where you have the whole world ahead of you, and all you can do is sit there and cry into your milk about how cruel the world is around you while you slip further and further into the pity party you call depression.

Get out and live a little, for Christ's sake. Go get some strange pussy, drive your car fast, piss into the wind, whatever. You're too young to be depressed all the time to the point where no medication seems to work. And if you DO drugs, other than psychedelics, and you drink, well, there's your problem right there.



Also, where did you cut and paste your original post from?


Books that helped me:
"The Breakthrough Method" by John Demartini
"The Alchemist" Paulo Coelho
"The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" Steven Covey


Been there before.

You're looking for answers, that's good.

Get your T checked if you haven't.


Obviously not the OP, but presenting an alternate view on this.

For myself, there seems to be no real "cause". It's just there and has been there for years. I thought it was normal until a couple friends persuaded me that it wasn't. A couple years working with a clinical psychologist for therapy and psychiatrist for meds (who work closely together in the same office) still hasn't really done a whole lot for me.

Every time I've tried to come up with a cause, it makes sense at the time but after awhile, I realize that's not really it. It doesn't seem like there's any real cause as such.

There are certainly things that make things worse, and things that improve it (you know, your standard job/relationship/life stability stuff) but even with everything else in place, things just feel... not good. Not always bad, but really never good.

FWIW, my T levels have been measured and are on the upper end of normal.


I don't sit around, cry and throw a pity party. I wrote it in a word document and copied it on here.

Don't drink/drugs either. and while I was joking, cocaine has been used as an anti depressant I believe at some point in time.


Nailed it. whenever I feel like I know what the cause is, I try to change it. Once it changes, I still don't feel better. Which only makes me more frustrated. I just always feel like shit and I don't know why.


Thank you. I'll look into it.