I know guys seem to get bagged alot when they mention using deca, but as a young fella my short steroid history was just a short deca cycle of 200mg a week and i felt awesome on it,helped with niggly injuries etc and workout recovery was excellent(non of this deca dick ive heard of). Now if everything is in place with trt that is good total T and freeT, E2 within range etc etc would 100mg dose of deca a week really screw up my labs, general wellbeing etc. Now abit older those niggly aches and pains from playing footy and training are catching up. i would love to have that recovery ability of deca again. Im probably just too eager and need to sit tight until my doc works out all my tests and hormones like pregnenolone, dhea etc and then see how i feel, its just a long drawn out process of trying everything, anyone have any positive experience with it on TRT or helping with arthritic back pain.
Dont bag me too much/ i just think deca would be a poor mans version of GH as far as recovery etc
It will convert to estrogen, albeit at a lower rate than test, so you will throw off your E2 levels. Are you planning on cycling or using it at a “crusing” dose? I doubt if there is much in the way of long-term studies for the latter.
Dreaming at the moment. Im going through the paces with my doc with balancing all my hormones. I was just thinking back to the glory days of when i used deca and how good it felt. I believe deca also aromatises to progesterone, so i wonder if adding a low dose of deca to TRT if this could possibly replace taking pregnenolone. My E2 was high and im now on arimidex only and get test results back tomorrow and then take it from there. We are just adding one thing at a time and see how i feel and how it effects other hormones, possibly will add preg cream and then retest again in 6 weeks and see how it has altered other hormones etc, my dhea is low so we are going to try and increase this without increasing E2 and also try increase freeT. so after preg will then look into Testosterone cream.
I got abit of topic but just dreaming/thinking of how deca may help with joint pains etc or maybe fix a few old injuries and interested in others who may add deca to their TRT for injuries etc. I do realise deca on its own is a no no for TRT. Also been reading on another thread of how guys are using progesterone with their TRT and i just thought with deca’s aromatisation to progesterone, it might be of benefit rather then take progesterone.
Now if everything is in place with trt that is good total T and freeT, E2 within range etc etc would 100mg dose of deca a week really screw up my labs, general wellbeing etc.
Dont bag me too much/ i just think deca would be a poor mans version of GH as far as recovery etc
Deca will do wonders for pain, but it will also mess up your total numbers when you do blood test for your TRT. All anabolic steroids are analogs of testoserone, so they will alter your total testosterone numbers where a doctor is checking for total and free testoserone and not specific steroids.
When you have low testosterone you are going to experience aches and pains that you wouldn’t experience with normal testosterone levels. So, it’s important you see what raising your testosterone levels will do for your current aches and pains before you add something else to the mix.
Once you get on TRT, you could run deca with it, but you would need to stop it at least 6 weeks before any blood test so that your doctor is only measuring and seeing blood levels of what is prescribed.
Thanks dragon rider for the reply, inpatient is what we get sometimes, it takes awhile to juggle everything and get it right. Deca is just an after thought and if used properly why couldnt it be used with good results. Im justing throwing these questions out there as everyone seems so scared of it but think it could possibly be beneficial.
I mentioned on another site about deca as other guys were talking about using progesterone and if i remember correctly deca has some conversion to progesterone and thought it maybe a better option then adding progesterone as deca has other good qualities and yes got shot down as being bodybuilding instead of TRT.
Also some guys are worried about DHT and hairloss or prostate problems so maybe another option could be to lower T dosage and fill the gap with deca, eg T50mg/wk and deca/100mg/week, just throwing it out there.
Danny-- What did you ever decide to do? Another side I believe is ED. Most do see it as a bodybuilding cycle stacking both Deca and T-cyp/ethan. My MD suggested the same thing, adding Deca. I am not sure if the pluses outweigh the negitives.
It was hypothethetical, as for going on testosterone that will have to wait as using pregnenolone has lifted my total T up to 27.8 from 20.8 (10-33), it also lifted my freeT but still below range but doc not interested in TRT as my total is so high, my E2 has come down to 30 from 39 using arimidex. I think alot of my problems are adrenal fatigue, pregnenolone has helped some with the joint pains and clicky joints, not so much for the muscle aches, but energy has increased and waist is decreasing slowly. My reasoning for the deca was to treat all these nagging little injuries i have built up over the years, maybe some of my joints are abit arthritic too. I think the hardest thing about it would be to track some down, even with a legal prescription its as expensive as. If money was no option i suppose GH would do everything we expect from deca and abit more.
Danny, Can I ask if you have seen any improvement going from 20 to 27 in testosterone?
The more I read these forums, I see that general practice varies so much. Some doctors are completely fine with test levels in the 250-300 range, while others are not fine with test levels in the 400 range.
Yes, there are lots if flavors of stupidity and ignorance. Opinion is not fact. Many have opinions and do not have a factual understanding.
Need to repeat this: I was approached by a guy, his wife was not happy. He did a totally stupid deca only cycle, and did not do a PCT. His HPTA was broken and PCT type efforts did not help. I hooked him up with a good doc and he is now mid 20’s on TRT. There are lots of similar stories like that. Some involve hair loss drugs or pro-hormones as the damaging agent. You cannot say that these things are safe. For a few, these “xenotestosterones” are disasters. Hormones alter gene expression. Some drugs permanently alter/damage gene expression. Testosterone will not do that. Drugs synthetically created to have anabolic properties have inherent risks for a few.
i have found improvement in energy, sex drive and fat loss, but not sure if its the increase in total T or freeT from 41.5 to 53.2(60-130) or lower E2 or improvement in adrenal hormones(dhea/cortisol) or combo of these. I also have chronic viral infections going on for which in the last few months have lowered this viral load with antiviral meds. Im attacking it from all angles. A basic priciple of treating chronic fatigue syndrome is the SHIN principle- Sleep/Hormones/Infections/Nutrition-SHIN, so i have been working my way through this. So i dont fit the typical hypogonodal guys here, but getting some good info here though.
KSman, i think just the reviews that deca seems to get on joint and muscle problems is just an attractive option for us aging guys, its slowly changing. Hormones/steriod info has done a 180 since info from the 1980s as it was recommended back then to stay away from testosterone products i think mainly because of aromatisation and fluid retention etc and to stay with anabolic substances like deca, stanazol etc as there was less estrogen conversion/gyno etc, but i suppose it has taken time to realise the side effects of hpta shutting down harder from anabolic substances and with the invention of meds like nolvadex and arimidex to help control the side effects of testosterone, making TRT alot safer. Probably why alot of anabolic drugs have vanished of the market and testosterone is still here.
For injuries and such you may want to look into GHRP-6…
I don’t know a lot about it myself, but from what I’ve read it is a very good, cheap alternative to HGH and people have successfully used it in injury rehab…not sure what the availability looks like in Oz though, but would be worth looking into if you’re interested…
I have been looking into mestinon as its a cheap drug that supposedly blocks the hormone from stopping growth hormone release. Somatostatin is the hormone that stops the release of growth hormone releasing hormone, mestinon supposedly stops this occurring, so theoretically increases gh release. With my poor sleep it wouldnt suprise me if i was low in gh. A sleep study i had a few years ago ruled out apnea etc but showed i dont reach deep stages of sleep, which is apparently common in people with chronic viral infections. Theres not many options around for increasing deep sleep. Sleep meds can increase the length of sleep but not really the quality but its better then no sleep.
Finding the availabilty of GHRP-6 in australia is hard, the fuzz are onto all aussie bbing sites, im not sure on the legal status here. Maybe someone can fill me in, no sources though. Im not really up to speed on it yet, but on my long list of things to look at though. I feel like im going down the right path at the moment, dont want to try too much too often, with my brain power i would get confused, lol
Can you post your reference regarding Deca altering gene expression.?
I am curiuos to see this as I have questioned DR. Michael Scally regarding this precise Confusion and want to compare his response to your reference…
In my example, a young guy did some deca only and his HPTA was busted and HTPA restart efforts failed. Deca and all steroid hormones alter gene expression, that is how they work. When you introduce a zeno-testosterone is can have unintended effects as there are several possible actions and some can be adverse. When there is a permanent change, there are changes to how your genes work. That is an Epi-genetic change.
Fake hormones can be damaging. Hair loss drugs are steroid hormones, look at the molecules.
Steroids exert a wide variety of effects mediated by slow genomic as well as by rapid nongenomic mechanisms. They bind to nuclear receptors in the cell nucleus for genomic actions. Membrane-associated steroid receptors activate intracellular signaling cascades involved in nongenomic actions.
I’m looking specifically for permanent gene changes from deca (only deca) minus hpta function… Permanent vs. long term affects…
When hpta is recovered and slow libido and erections issues persist from deca use…
There seems to be an extended time period of disfunction at the pituitary level that is not seen in blood serums…
Thanks for the good info…
My research is suggesting that the effects take place during the active life of serum levels and active metabolites…
Have you had a round with nandralone in your times…?
Thanks again bro…!