T Nation

Another Christianity Debate

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Honestly, the “Christianity threads” on this board have gotten out of hand. Is there a point to all of this besides just stirring trouble? If someone ever did have something important to say, it would get lost in between retarded rants by self proclaimed “witnesses” and prophets.[/quote]

Yes, the point is that there are people that honestly wish to discuss these things, and then there are people like you who pop on these threads to chastise us for discussing things that interest us THE SAME WAY YOU DISCUSS THINGS THAT INTEREST YOU.

Stop being a hypocrite!

[quote]vroom wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:
Are you guys suggesting that they sensor the forums? If they will get offended be religious discussions then maybe they will get offended by political discussions. They may also be offended by half-naked pictures of women or depending on their sexual preference half-naked men. I mean after all this is a website that focuses on weight training right? We don?t really need to discuss differing ideas about anything other than supplements, nutrition or lifting routines do we?

Last time I checked T-Nation was a private business that can conduct itself however it likes within the law.

I don’t think it has to be held hostage to topics that damage it’s business interests if it doesn’t want to be.

In reality, I am amazed at the latitude they show around these parts. While politics is merely annoying to much of the population, devout fundamental religion is simply abhorred.

That makes some with persecution complexes happy though.[/quote]

I am thankful for the lattitude, as I am not sure what rules govern these types of forums. There must be FCC rules on this though.

In any case, you are free not to post on these threads. However, since you post alot on these threads, you too, as usual, are a hypocrite!

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
They say this because that is what the Bible says. Being “Christian” would mean following “Christ,” and following Chirst would mean to follow what He says. Period. Jesus said that “I am THE way, THE truth and THE life, no man (i.e. nobody) comes unto the Father (i.e. enteres Heaven) except by me (only through Him.” Pretty simple.
[/quote]

LOL.

Look, this is not a universal interpretation, and given your lack of intelligence, you should realize you might be wrong.

This part is alright…

But this part gets quite tricky…

Jesus said a lot more than that. In fact, he said many things… some of which seem to conflict with one another.

He also said that one could go to heaven if one followed the laws and loved God.

Are you claiming that he lied?

Following Jesus can also simply mean that you can’t get there without following him.

However, the use of flowery language aside, all you have to do is listen to him and follow his advice, to take his lessons to heart.

It is only us, ourselves, through the process of making historic items more and more significant over time, that have turned this into some strange meaning that is hard to fathom.

Any of the roads that Jesus laid out to us, if we follow them, will lead us where we want to go.

There are at least two occasions where he allows that living well (which is what I call abiding by the commandments) and loving God is sufficient.

However, he does point out that acquiring wealth instead of caring for your fellow man is not acceptable.

Anyway Steveo, like it or not, you don’t have a lock on what Jesus actually meant, you have your own interpretation and given your lack of ability to understand what anybody writes around here I truly question your ability to accurately interpret text written in the language and mindset of someone living two thousand years ago.

You should think about that.

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
In any case, you are free not to post on these threads. However, since you post alot on these threads, you too, as usual, are a hypocrite![/quote]

Are you sure you understand what the term hypocrisy means?

I’m not sure you can see the difference, but I don’t post rabid religious dogma, nor do I start all these threads.

Since they do continue to allow them, I try to counter some of the bullshit spread by you and your ilk.

[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
In any case, you are free not to post on these threads. However, since you post alot on these threads, you too, as usual, are a hypocrite!

Are you sure you understand what the term hypocrisy means?

I’m not sure you can see the difference, but I don’t post rabid religious dogma, nor do I start all these threads.

Since they do continue to allow them, I try to counter some of the bullshit spread by you and your ilk.
[/quote]

I believe its not hypocrisy he is talking about (or conceptualising) but something called, ‘do as I say not as I do’, aka ‘holier than thou’.

[quote]Stiggy wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:

Are you guys suggesting that they sensor the forums? If they will get offended be religious discussions then maybe they will get offended by political discussions. They may also be offended by half-naked pictures of women or depending on their sexual preference half-naked men. I mean after all this is a website that focuses on weight training right? We don?t really need to discuss differing ideas about anything other than supplements, nutrition or lifting routines do we?

Me Solomon Grundy

Its one thing discussing topics not pertaining to the sport and the lifestyle, and then telling people they are going to hell, homosexuality is evil and supporting redkneck flag waving. Surely you understand this.

[/quote]

Surely I do. One thing that I also understand is that Biotest created this website great site where people feel free to discuss almost anything. They even have an Off Topic and Politics and World Issues forums. I think the Mods do their jobs just fine. They let sexy pictures pass, but keep it from being porn. The only times that they really stop someone from saying anything is racial slurs, threats and anything about another companies products (or negative about their own). Other than that, they don?t stop anyone even if they don?t agree with what?s said.
IMHO there is a bias expressed here against Christianity. I expect it and it?s the way of the world. I have heard far more hateful things come from the Atheists here than the Theists. I have had many insults thrown at me and I doubt that you can find an over the top retaliation from me. I have noticed a few Christians who are hateful and that is sad.

Do you honestly equate the things that you mentioned with Christianity? Where does redneck flag waving come in?

Me Solomon Grundy

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It isn’t about simply offending them. they took these posts down from the Most Discussed Topics for a reason. They also didn’t do this for YEARS until a few lunatics start making daily religious threads and the overall tone and intelligence in this forum dropped several points.[/quote]

Did you notice that Christianity was singled out here? I agree that there are lunatics on T-Nation but not all are religious or Christian for that matter. I doubt that the Christian poster has much to do with any drop in intelligence points on this forum.

Me Solomon Grundy

[quote]vroom wrote:
Last time I checked T-Nation was a private business that can conduct itself however it likes within the law.

I don’t think it has to be held hostage to topics that damage it’s business interests if it doesn’t want to be.

In reality, I am amazed at the latitude they show around these parts. While politics is merely annoying to much of the population, devout fundamental religion is simply abhorred.

That makes some with persecution complexes happy though.[/quote]

I never said that it would be illegal in any way for them to censor the forums. I would assert though that if they decide to censor and go over board that the number of people that come to this site will fall. People like the freedom here to express what they want. The devout fundamental religion that you speak of, could that be Atheism as well? With all the animosity toward Christians, do I really need a persecution complex?

Me Solomon Grundy

[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:

Surely I do. One thing that I also understand is that Biotest created this website great site where people feel free to discuss almost anything. They even have an Off Topic and Politics and World Issues forums. I think the Mods do their jobs just fine. They let sexy pictures pass, but keep it from being porn. The only times that they really stop someone from saying anything is racial slurs, threats and anything about another companies products (or negative about their own). Other than that, they don?t stop anyone even if they don?t agree with what?s said.
IMHO there is a bias expressed here against Christianity. I expect it and it?s the way of the world. I have heard far more hateful things come from the Atheists here than the Theists. I have had many insults thrown at me and I doubt that you can find an over the top retaliation from me. I have noticed a few Christians who are hateful and that is sad.

Do you honestly equate the things that you mentioned with Christianity? Where does redneck flag waving come in?

Me Solomon Grundy
[/quote]

You are kind of confusing the issue. Firstly T-Nation does not stop comments about other companies products. Secondly they do let posts through that constructively criticises them and their products. So I don’t know what you mean.

Secondly, nobody is being anti christian. The issue is ‘Christian’ threads, which you as a christian have identified are being polluted by ‘hateful christians’. When someone says anything to the people involved, they come out with all this mumbo jumbo about how the accuser is anti christian blah blah blah and then chuck in some xenophobic and other ignorant crap just for a laugh.

They may deny it, but the ‘hateful’ Christians as you put it have catgorically (and this is documentable) discounted, Jews, Muslims, Catholics, people from countries outside the US, gays and give it time probably get round to bringing in a bit of racism and misogyny.

Paradoxially, probably its not just me who thinks this. Yet I am one of the few people willing to call this people cunts and then have them talk even more nonsense.

[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
Professor X wrote:

It isn’t about simply offending them. they took these posts down from the Most Discussed Topics for a reason. They also didn’t do this for YEARS until a few lunatics start making daily religious threads and the overall tone and intelligence in this forum dropped several points.

Did you notice that Christianity was singled out here? I agree that there are lunatics on T-Nation but not all are religious or Christian for that matter. I doubt that the Christian poster has much to do with any drop in intelligence points on this forum.

Me Solomon Grundy
[/quote]

If a lunatic decided to bring down the forums with threads on carpentry it would be no different. It just so happens their weapon of choice is ‘Christianity’, which resides in ‘quotes’ as ike you identified, ‘hateful’ Christianity is not really Christianity is it. I think you will agree the meaning is lost in its translation.

The internet is the ideal place for telling people they are sinners and going to hell, because in real life, no one would listen or they would just spark you out and leave you in a pool of blood and teeth. I mean, people are so intollerant of Christians, sorry or was that lunatics ?

[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
Professor X wrote:

It isn’t about simply offending them. they took these posts down from the Most Discussed Topics for a reason. They also didn’t do this for YEARS until a few lunatics start making daily religious threads and the overall tone and intelligence in this forum dropped several points.

Did you notice that Christianity was singled out here? I agree that there are lunatics on T-Nation but not all are religious or Christian for that matter. I doubt that the Christian poster has much to do with any drop in intelligence points on this forum.

Me Solomon Grundy
[/quote]

What was singled out about stopping one or two lunatics from posting nonstop threads for a while about religion that did nothing but cause more discourse? Beyond that, the entire forum had basically degraded into “we’re right and you’re stupid and we have 4 MORE YEARS!”. From what I understand, they were receiving requests from other posters to stop putting the political threads in the main forum. Contrary to what some here would like to believe, not everyone wants to read how we found “WMD’s” that aren’t really WMD’s because they are inoperative but because they are classified as “a weapon” this means Bush didn’t lie. Deep thought on these forums? Where is it? We get Kool Aid drinkers screaming ridiculous rants about liberals anytime someone (even other Republicans) disagrees with them and atheists who somehow feel the need to relate God to Santa Clause and then stand there with their arms folded as if that really isn’t an insult and they don’t really think all christians are stupid, they just won’t stop relating God to fairtales. This entire forum contains some of the most closed minded people to ever cross paths on the internet. The only thing singled out was stupidity.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

…and atheists who somehow feel the need to relate God to Santa Clause and then stand there with their arms folded as if that really isn’t an insult and they don’t really think all christians are stupid, they just won’t stop relating God to fairtales. [/quote]

Whilst this occurs, I don’t disagree, the people involved in the religous elitism are quick to tell anyone who does not agree with them…and oddly some who do…are athiests, going to hell, drowning in sin etc. That’s not rational thinking, thats lunacy.

People here would call the Archbishop of Canterbury an athiest and someone who should read the bible, and suchlike, just because they think they can.

I think I started to mention I was Catholic somewhere and it kind of went from me being a Catholic to some guy who ticket touts for Lucifer. Such is the convulted madness of some forum users. If I even mention it, I could have almost have said I just boiled a couple of poodles for the reaction.

Three words…hateful mother fuckers !

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Honestly, the “Christianity threads” on this board have gotten out of hand. Is there a point to all of this besides just stirring trouble? If someone ever did have something important to say, it would get lost in between retarded rants by self proclaimed “witnesses” and prophets.[/quote]

For some of us there is. I’m legitimately trying to figure out what to believe in. I’m sorry if other people stirring up trouble have ruined it for you.

I thought you might be one of the people who would bring up interesting points, not just accuse me of bringing up frivolous topics.

[quote]georgeb wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Honestly, the “Christianity threads” on this board have gotten out of hand. Is there a point to all of this besides just stirring trouble? If someone ever did have something important to say, it would get lost in between retarded rants by self proclaimed “witnesses” and prophets.

For some of us there is. I’m legitimately trying to figure out what to believe in. I’m sorry if other people stirring up trouble have ruined it for you.[/quote]

Ask yourself, is you legitimately trying to figure out what to believe in a global or political issue ?

I appreciate you all you guys who took the time to seriously answer me, and not just complain about certain threads.

One of the biggest things that I hope you could see is that we should be hanging on the details of the exact scripture of whatever religion we are. We should be taking the main idea to guide us, on the basis that we have no pure books to be taking exact interpretations from.

I’m going to use the Bible as an example, as I am most familiar with it. Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m in no way saying the Bible is wrong. However, I think that you when you take the bible literally- word for word- you have to take it with a grain of salt, for a few different reasons:

  • Each of the books in the Bible was written by men. Jesus said himself that no man is perfect or good, and because of this fact, the Bible cannot be 100% good or perfect either simply because the authors were not.

  • The copies of the Bible we read are translations from other languages. There is the potential for flaw in the translation, because of the huge differences in expression of ideas in different languages.

  • The books of the Bible are extremely old, some of which occurred before written history. Take the example of Adam and Eve. There was no written history when this occured, so this story was likely passed down through verbal stories. The details definately changed. (Look at rumors- how often does the REAL story get told?) Because of this, I don’t think we can take the words literally.

  • http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm#hebrewnt
    There are TONS of different versions of the Bible. How are we to know which one has the exact words to follow?

Once again, the Bible is not wrong, but it should not be taken literally.

EDIT: Wrong is the ‘wrong’ word. Right now, my sentence is somewhat of a contradiction. I hope you can skate around my massacre of word choice.

[quote]Stiggy wrote:
georgeb wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Honestly, the “Christianity threads” on this board have gotten out of hand. Is there a point to all of this besides just stirring trouble? If someone ever did have something important to say, it would get lost in between retarded rants by self proclaimed “witnesses” and prophets.

For some of us there is. I’m legitimately trying to figure out what to believe in. I’m sorry if other people stirring up trouble have ruined it for you.

Ask yourself, is you legitimately trying to figure out what to believe in a global or political issue ? [/quote]

Where else would I ask this? I suppose I could have posted this in the Get a Life Forum, but I didn’t think it would make a difference.

[quote]georgeb wrote:
Once again, the Bible is not wrong, but it should not be taken literally.
[/quote]

Oh oh. According to Steveo, the self appointed judge on the disposition of peoples souls, you are bound for hell.

Enjoy yourself while you are here! :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]georgeb wrote:
Stiggy wrote:
georgeb wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Honestly, the “Christianity threads” on this board have gotten out of hand. Is there a point to all of this besides just stirring trouble? If someone ever did have something important to say, it would get lost in between retarded rants by self proclaimed “witnesses” and prophets.

For some of us there is. I’m legitimately trying to figure out what to believe in. I’m sorry if other people stirring up trouble have ruined it for you.

Ask yourself, is you legitimately trying to figure out what to believe in a global or political issue ?

Where else would I ask this? I suppose I could have posted this in the Get a Life Forum, but I didn’t think it would make a difference.[/quote]

Maybe you could ask a priest or something or equiv. Questioning the bible is best done away from this place.

That is worthwhile reading. Not everyone will agree, but for intelligent religion that does not border on self righteousness and fanaticism, its not bad.

The thing is, the Roman Catholic church were mindful of people not understanding much of what is written in the bible.

I like the bit that says “when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority”, sure that rings a few bells round here.

[quote]Stiggy wrote:
georgeb wrote:
Stiggy wrote:
georgeb wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Honestly, the “Christianity threads” on this board have gotten out of hand. Is there a point to all of this besides just stirring trouble? If someone ever did have something important to say, it would get lost in between retarded rants by self proclaimed “witnesses” and prophets.

For some of us there is. I’m legitimately trying to figure out what to believe in. I’m sorry if other people stirring up trouble have ruined it for you.

Ask yourself, is you legitimately trying to figure out what to believe in a global or political issue ?

Where else would I ask this? I suppose I could have posted this in the Get a Life Forum, but I didn’t think it would make a difference.

Maybe you could ask a priest or something or equiv. Questioning the bible is best done away from this place.
[/quote]

Actually, I have. I found it to be very enlightening. The entire reason I still occasionally attend the church I mentioned is because I’ve had so many interesting discussions with some of the people associated with the church (The Pastor, The Youth Director, and others).

I asked the question here because everyone is so opinionated. I wanted to hear others thoughts about this, regardless if those thoughts pertained to my damnation.