T Nation

Another Change!

My endo is closing his practice so I got a new one. She looked over my records and said the hcg and clomid both produced results and doesn’t want too continue the testosterone. I stated the effects of both 1 the clomid made me feel like absolute shit. 2 the hcg made me feel ok but at 500ius/day I could pinch my nipples and get fluid out of them so I quit on my own worrying. She want too try and stimulate me at the same dose and adjust after labs. Anyway I found this published and thought it was very interesting at how low the doses were. Anyone else have success with hcg therapy.

Im very sensitive too meds and do very well at a low total test level because my bioavailable levels are always at the top range.

As stated over and over again; clomid has severe estrogenic side effects for some guys, in the tissues that the SERM does not select for. The “S” in SERM is for “Selective”.

Nolvadex has the same action and does not have those estrogenic side effects for the guys who have negative experiences with clomid. Ask to use Nolvadex.

You do not have a thread here that describes your TRT details.

That paper follows a 2005 study that was very similar. Both used SC injections for hCG. In that study, 250iu hCG SC EOD closely restored ITT.

Thanks. I’ve read that about nolvadex and asked for it instead before and got a big NO! I thought it was interesting in that literature that they state 15-60 ius eod produced results. Im going to demand we start low and increase to avoid sides. The thing thats disappointing is how can so many of the same doctors have different knowledge of how to do things.

What do they mean by results? If the objective is a dose of hCG that restores ITT to the baseline, I do not believe that data. Most guys do well with 250iu SC EOD with no significant change to E2. Young men with healthy testes will respond better that ‘old balls’. In my case, hCG increased my TT by 17%. With a young guy, that should be enough to get good T levels.

hCG causing too much E2 is from pushing ITT way to high. That accelerated T–>E2 aromatization inside the testes and that cannot be controlled with a competitive aromatase inhibitor [AI] because the T levels are so very high. Anastrozole can only be expected to have significant effects in peripheral tissue.

Rarely, we see guys who are hCG hyper responders. They will have high E2 and anastrozole will be ineffective. Then smaller doses of hCG can be tried.

You can always start small and work your way up. But 250iu hCG EOD will probably not cause any problems and you can get settled into whatever hCG has to offer sooner.

Well I’ll give alittle props to the new dr. I requested to start lower and she had no problem with it. So starting today hcg 250ius eod. Fingers crossed! Thanks for your input ksman! Labs will be shared when available…

Well things are going pretty well so far on hcg only. Actually feel more leveled than before. You suppose after months if things stay well a guy could slowly reduce the dose and eventually have a full recovery? Just a thought! Would your lh levels increase as you reduce the hcg?

If one reduces hCG, then LH will recover to some extent. And there are better methods to get that done. However, if there is an underlying problem that limits your ability to produce, LH/FSH, then the that is still there. We discuss HPTA restart often, try searching for that phrase.

Well after my last post my insurance wasn’t going too cover the hcg. I decided too taper off and its been about 2 weeks now since I dosed which was 60 ius.
Supplements im taking are fish oil,1000mg vitamin C, 2000ius vitamin E,60mg zinc,400mg magnesium, 88mcg synthroid, and 10,000 ius vitamin D3 daily.

I won’t know any levels until the second week of february, but I feel pretty good. Im sleeping better than I have in a long time and actually feel rested when I awake. Libido and ability are both good. My fingers are crossed that I keep improving.

Pay for hCG out of pocket if needed.

synthroid: If dose is ok and you are converting T4–>T3 properly, your body temperatures should be OK. See the “Thyroid Basics” post/sticky.

If I have too I will, but im feeling pretty leveled out at the moment and im going too see what these basic supplements and some lifestyle changes can do for me. I’ll share my labs when they are completed.