T Nation

Animal Smarts

This cautionary post may be unwanted, it may seem harsh, but please read with an open mind my educated observation. I am not a lawyer, but due to an interest in fitness and because my medical doctor put me on HRT about 10 years ago I have been a frequent visitor to various boards for over a decade and watched alot.

On many boards buys post their cycles, pics of their gear, pics of them with their gear etc. I am not a lawyer but this does not seem smart.

There have been arrests of minors lately simply because they posted pics on FACEBOOK of them with beer or other liqour containers. If you google you can find the links to the news releases. For all anyone knows they could have been empty beer cans filled with water, but it did not stop police from arresting them - largely because apparently their facebook page also discussed their drinking at parties etc.

Within the last month or so a chemical research supplier was found guilty, mostly because of one email he sent telling someone how to use the products for human consumption.

On some boards they say LE is not interested in going for individual users but for dealers, they want the big fish. Steroids are a drug, and out here prisons are full of individual users. In fact I would say there are waayyyyy more personal users in prisons than any other category (dealers, murderers, etc). I saw this after working in the prison for a short time in 2006.

I am not sure if he is still around but there was a guy who went by the name of “Animal”. He sold what I think were the first conversion kits. He was a bicycle competitor. He had a board. When he was out of the country competing in bicycling, the police raided his house, took all sorts of things including his computer. This was 5 years ago or so. He did not go down. Because he had a simple rule that he always followed. I only visited his board a couple of times because he was very arrogant and it kind of ticked me off - but if you broke the rule you got banned.

Nobody could ever post or ask questions via PM or email about what to take, to use, how to use it, how to convert it unless it was described in terms of research on animals. ex. " Question :If someone were to give fina to a 200 LB cow, do you think 6 months would be too long". That question is not posed as a reality its posed theoretically. Apparently if someone emailed Animal and asked him about converting tren for their own use he would not reply, it had to be posed as theory or for research on animals.

I am not advising anybody do this in order to get away with something illegal. It just seems Animal was smart about it. If someone was to engage in something illegal it seems like that would be the smart way to do it to avoid getting caught, although doing illegal things is wrong.

On FACEBOOK kids have gotten busted, not for posession or selling, but simply having a picture of them with beer and writing that they drink at parties. Not a huge leap to think the same could happen to someone posting they use steroids without a prescription.

I am not saying anything, just thinking out loud. It just seems Animal was smart for never giving anyone anything to hang their hat on. LE tried to take him down, house raided by several agencies, took things stored in his house, took computer - and in the end could do nothing. He was back in business.

On the other hand this recent research chem guy was found guilty because of one careless email saying : a person should take x amount.

Excellent post.

Nice to see that our government is sticking to “Innocent until proven guilty.”

I can appreciate your post and its intent, but I have to question the legality of police making an arrest based upon a picture or something mentioned on the internet. I’m not saying it has not happened, and I’m no lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that LE needs stronger grounds to arrest someone than this. Even if it did happen, I cannot imagine it would hold up in a higher court. Especially in the case of AAS: If there is no possession, then all of this is just words.

If the police want to raid someone’s house, they have to convince a judge to issue a warrant. The judge will almost certainly want a little more than postings on an internet board. So while your warning is well taken (prudence is always good when one is engaging in illegal activities), the message itself seems, to me, a little silly.

[quote]Fawkes wrote:
This cautionary post may be unwanted, it may seem harsh, but please read with an open mind my educated observation. I am not a lawyer, but due to an interest in fitness and because my medical doctor put me on HRT about 10 years ago I have been a frequent visitor to various boards for over a decade and watched alot.

On many boards buys post their cycles, pics of their gear, pics of them with their gear etc. I am not a lawyer but this does not seem smart.

There have been arrests of minors lately simply because they posted pics on FACEBOOK of them with beer or other liqour containers. If you google you can find the links to the news releases. For all anyone knows they could have been empty beer cans filled with water, but it did not stop police from arresting them - largely because apparently their facebook page also discussed their drinking at parties etc.

Within the last month or so a chemical research supplier was found guilty, mostly because of one email he sent telling someone how to use the products for human consumption.

On some boards they say LE is not interested in going for individual users but for dealers, they want the big fish. Steroids are a drug, and out here prisons are full of individual users. In fact I would say there are waayyyyy more personal users in prisons than any other category (dealers, murderers, etc). I saw this after working in the prison for a short time in 2006.

I am not sure if he is still around but there was a guy who went by the name of “Animal”. He sold what I think were the first conversion kits. He was a bicycle competitor. He had a board. When he was out of the country competing in bicycling, the police raided his house, took all sorts of things including his computer. This was 5 years ago or so. He did not go down. Because he had a simple rule that he always followed. I only visited his board a couple of times because he was very arrogant and it kind of ticked me off - but if you broke the rule you got banned.

Nobody could ever post or ask questions via PM or email about what to take, to use, how to use it, how to convert it unless it was described in terms of research on animals. ex. " Question :If someone were to give fina to a 200 LB cow, do you think 6 months would be too long". That question is not posed as a reality its posed theoretically. Apparently if someone emailed Animal and asked him about converting tren for their own use he would not reply, it had to be posed as theory or for research on animals.

I am not advising anybody do this in order to get away with something illegal. It just seems Animal was smart about it. If someone was to engage in something illegal it seems like that would be the smart way to do it to avoid getting caught, although doing illegal things is wrong.

On FACEBOOK kids have gotten busted, not for posession or selling, but simply having a picture of them with beer and writing that they drink at parties. Not a huge leap to think the same could happen to someone posting they use steroids without a prescription.

I am not saying anything, just thinking out loud. It just seems Animal was smart for never giving anyone anything to hang their hat on. LE tried to take him down, house raided by several agencies, took things stored in his house, took computer - and in the end could do nothing. He was back in business.

On the other hand this recent research chem guy was found guilty because of one careless email saying : a person should take x amount.

[/quote]

This is only tangentially related to some of the previous posts, but I have some experience with the whole Facebook issue. As a former RA of a major midwestern university, it was a policy that if students posted pictures like those mentioned above, they could be written up. While not a legal consequence, there is some precedent, however small or weak, for the kind of action that Fawkes is mentioning.

Interesting post, however I find a lot of your logic very flawed. Possibly because I am in Canada and its actually not illegal to posess steroids here.

I could get my picture taken witha big bag of white powder in my hand, but I dont see anyone coming knocking on my door anytime soon on an assumption of what I may have had in my hand.

Yeah, my comments apply to the United States.

Oh, let me translate that : My comments apply to the United States, eh.

The link you posted related to teenage high schoolers having their property searched by school officials, not adults having their homes raided because of facebook pictures. Kids have no right to privacy insofar as school grounds are concerned.

The fact comes down to a search warrant, as Cortes said, which will be decided on by a judge. Law enforcement is not in itself autonomous.

Too much hoopla, not enough facts.

Thats cool. Everyone has their own comfort level. I am just saying the internet is being used more and more for arrests http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/FedCrimes/story?id=4145599&page=1

The steroid arrests are not going away any time soon, and could very well pick up steam. Few ever face the type of heat Animal faced with several branches of law trying to team up on him, only to fail. The guys in raw deal went down much easier. For those decent people playing the gear game, hopefully you are right.

I myself would not because I have too much to lose. THe legal climate is hot. I see alot of people flaunting it on many boards, and feel pretty invulnerable still - maybe they are. But if caught I am sure most of them would roll on everyone they know. So I still think besides caution as to what you post, at least equal caution who you associate with.

I know that on many boards, they always post about “all drug talk here is pure roleplay and fictional and etc.”

I personally feel the laws against AAS are stupid and that there should be many other priorities for law enforcement officials, but then again if we are dumb enough to advertise illegal dealings it makes it easy picking for those publicity hungry officers.

[quote]SwD wrote:
I know that on many boards, they always post about “all drug talk here is pure roleplay and fictional and etc.”

I personally feel the laws against AAS are stupid and that there should be many other priorities for law enforcement officials, but then again if we are dumb enough to advertise illegal dealings it makes it easy picking for those publicity hungry officers.

[/quote]

I’m almost positive (ie, I believe I remember Rick Collins saying) that the “role play” signature that people attach to their posts is completely useless in the real world of law. It’s fun to think that if you say the magic words you are now safe and sound, though, I guess.

And Rich Collins is in a whole lot of hot water himself right now for having represented the online pharmacies that are going down.

[quote]Fawkes wrote:
And Rich Collins is in a whole lot of hot water himself right now for having represented the online pharmacies that are going down.[/quote]

This has no bearing on my statement, though.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

I’m almost positive (ie, I believe I remember Rick Collins saying) that the “role play” signature that people attach to their posts is completely useless in the real world of law. It’s fun to think that if you say the magic words you are now safe and sound, though, I guess.[/quote]

That’s just like attaching “With all due respect…” to comments made to supervisors/superiors/bosses/whatever you call them. Once you attach that phrase, you can say anything, and not get in any trouble with those motherfuc****. With all due respect, of course!

You’re all such tools.

With all due respect!

[quote]Contrl wrote:
You’re all such tools.

With all due respect![/quote]

Yes!! You’ve got the right idea. And that’s how it’s done, gentlemen.

[quote]Fawkes wrote:
And Rich Collins is in a whole lot of hot water himself right now for having represented the online pharmacies that are going down.[/quote]

It’s Rick Collins for starters, poindexter. Secondly, we have a first amendment in this country that protects our right to have conversations about anything we want.

What is the name of this supposed Chem supply company? I ask you for some proof, and you tell me that the place where you heard it is shut down. Pretty convenient for a motor mouth. You need to know what the fuck you are talking about before you start typing.

Have you heard of ORD? You are posting like you just had a fucking epiphany. Newsflash, asshole - you are about 3.5 months behind the damn curve.

Now unless you have something worth reading to contribute - how about getting the fuck out of my forum?

Anyone that takes anything this jackass has to say seriously should do so at their own peril. There is a reason that there is a hierarchy of sorts in this forum - particularly in this forum.

[quote]Contrl wrote:
You’re all such tools.

With all due respect![/quote]

LOL, that is pretty funny

[quote]rainjack wrote:

It’s Rick Collins for starters, poindexter. Secondly, we have a first amendment in this country that protects our right to have conversations about anything we want.

What is the name of this supposed Chem supply company? I ask you for some proof, and you tell me that the place where you heard it is shut down. Pretty convenient for a motor mouth. You need to know what the fuck you are talking about before you start typing.

Have you heard of ORD? You are posting like you just had a fucking epiphany. Newsflash, asshole - you are about 3.5 months behind the damn curve.

Now unless you have something worth reading to contribute - how about getting the fuck out of my forum?

Anyone that takes anything this jackass has to say seriously should do so at their own peril. There is a reason that there is a hierarchy of sorts in this forum - particularly in this forum. [/quote]

Actually our first amendment does not protect our rights to have a conversation about anything; you cannot talk about bombs while waiting in airport security dumbshit, you cannot yell fire in a theatre, you cannot slander another person. So again - you are wrong.

I will try and find out the name of the chem place again for others sake - it was not just shut down, he was sentenced in court. I will have to email the mod of another board, because the board the actual court documents were posted on crashed and is being rebuilt.

I am familiar with operation raw deal.

Are you the moderator of this forum? Does not surprise me, your physique in the avatar shows only steroid abuse and not hard work

[quote]Fawkes wrote:
Actually our first amendment does not protect our rights to have a conversation about anything; you cannot talk about bombs while waiting in airport security dumbshit, you cannot yell fire in a theatre, you cannot slander another person. So again - you are wrong.[/quote]

And that applies to AAS - how? Nice try. Since you even know the fact that you can’t yell fire in a theater - it is obvious that even the most stupid of people know this.

Keep trying asshole. Making excuses means dick. Don’t mention the event if you have no proof to back it up. I am really wanting to see if you can manufacture this supposed bust.

Doesn’t sound like it.

[quote]Are you the moderator of this forum? Does not surprise me, your physique in the avatar shows only steroid abuse and not hard work

[/quote]

That’s hilarious. The avatar is that of Pudzianoski - 3X World’s Strongest Man. DO I need to sate the obvious?

Now - either contribute or fucking leave the forum.