Hello im new to these forums and i have a question about this product. The ingredients in it are 2a, 17a di methyl eticholan 3-one, 17b-ol.It is supposed to be the same as superdrol.Can anyone tell me if this supplement is good for a ph beginner.
I am not familiar with the specific product but that structure would have reasonable likelihood of being a decent one for activity, IMO.
Whether it might have unusual psychological or other side effects cannot be predicted. If on the other hand users are familiar with the product the answer to that is already known, just not by me. It will not aromatize or undergo 5AR reduction.
There's also, if the matter is not already known, a chance of poor effectiveness. An analogous example would be Proviron. The question would be, does moving the A-ring methyl from 2a to 1a and adding the 17a methyl get rid of the anabolic sorriness of Proviron? Quite possibly, but not necessarily. Only practice would tell.
However it is not a "prohormone." It is a designer anabolic steroid. "Designer" not being such a positive term: it means one that never made it as a pharmaceutical.
Also be aware that being 17-alkylated, the same concerns apply as with any alkylated anabolic steroid.
Yup, that would be superdrol. Its one hell of a drug. It will put weight on you but your experience with it is completely up to how your body responds. You may walk away 10-15lbs heavier and with only elevated liver values but you could also walk away a wreck sporting a mean set of tits. SD, by no means is "Happy Meal" gear which means that I wouldn't consider it user friendly enough for a beginner. My two centavos.
Can you guys tell me a good site to get a good pct like nolva that isnt to expensive?
Que? No hablo Ingles?
I dont think superdrol should be considered dangerous.
Dangerous compared to creatine...maybe.
You don't think over-the-counter (or over-the-Internet) liver toxic substances should be considered dangerous? To at least some degree?
Bill, Pat Arnold once said [on BB.com forums] that this compound is mg-for-mg the most potent oral steroid, both in effect and toxicity.
What do you think... hyperbole? I understand methylation changes effects exerted and general feel of the compound, but doesn't this appear to be methylated masteron, chemically?
It is impossible to judge potency (effectiveness per milligram) by that method, saying that one steroid is like another but for one methyl being added, or that sort of thing.
There is actually a quite dramatic change in the shape of the molecule that results from adding a 17-methyl. The entire structure twists in a complex way to accomodate it. Receptor binding is a function mostly of shape. The human mind cannot predict in detail either the exact shape change or, if it knew the exact shape change, the resulting change in receptor binding.
For example, could you predict that the oxandrolone structure, on losing the 17-methyl, would lose absolutely all potency? Even when taken by injection. I don't believe any human mind could predict that.
So that is an example of a molecule going from zero (with no 17-methyl) to fairly potent, "simply" on addition of this methyl.
There are other examples of a 17-methyl adding no potency at all where the comparison is by injection in both cases.
It's not predictable.
The same is true for any unusual per-milligram toxicity. A good example is methyltrienolone. One couldn't deduce from the structure that it would be tens or hundreds of times more toxic per milligram (if it is; it is claimed to be though) than pharmaceutical oral anabolic structures.
So, as another example, reasoning that "Well, Dianabol is essentially boldenone with an added 17-methyl and can, for reasonable periods of time, safely be taken at similar total dosage per week as is typically used for boldenone, so surely adding a 17-methyl to trenbolone would yield a compound that could be taken at similar total dose per week as trenbolone" would be quite in error.
Not quite what I meant, people act like if you take it for longer than 4 weeks you will die.
Liver toxicity is overstated with most orals, especially PH's
I think if a person has an expectation that he can take something that is sold legally (supposedly) as a "nutritional supplement" that therefore it will be safe enough to be unable to harm his health with sustained use at the recommended daily dosage, that is not unreasonable of him and it ought to be the case.
This is not the case with the 17-alkylated "prohormones" which are not prohormones or nutritional supplements, but drugs -- and drugs which have not passed and in many cases could not pass clinical trials for safety reasons.
Of course, what one means personally by the word "dangerous" will vary. That is why I asked above, "to at least some degree."
Reading Bill's post is inspiring. The has been several incidences of jaundice mildly linked to SD. A moron high school kid in my old town pureed his liver with it. He wouldn't listen to me because "he knew".
Nolvadex is a MUST.
On another note I think this might be useful for you if it is Superdrol (i.e Methasterone or 2a,17a-Dimethyl-17B-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one).
As Bill pointed out, never underestimate a drug. Read the above thread and then some before messing with superdrol. I have no experience with it but ordered a clone. Will run a proper cycle when I get hold of some clomid and Nolva. DON'T get all excited if you think 6oxo, Novadex or Rebound TX or whatever can replace clomid/nolva. Play it safe, or forget it.
If you wanna mess with PH with no PCT and with no elevated liver values then try get hold of some 4AD. Run it at 200mg/day till the bottle ends. Then run some tribulus for 4 weeks and repeat. Got the idea by reading 'the never ending cycle' written by Cy Willson a while back. That's what I been doing. I can tell that it helps to recover, but won't yield the same results as Superdrol based on what I have read. Here's the link:
Just trying to help man.
EDIT: I done some more research regarding what effect Superdrol has on the lipid profile. There's some really bad bad HDL/LDL ratios and cases of very bad suppression. Not to be taken lightly from what I have read. Flameout (fishoil complex, just head over the Biotest online store) should be a MUST along with Milk Thistle while on cycle and during PCT and then some.
Note, if the product is in fact the claimed structure, it cannot aromatize. It would also seem highly unlikely to be estrogenic itself. Therefore Nolvadex/Clomid may be of no use against any gyno-promoting effect it has been said to have. That is, given the above "if."
It is Bill, I cross referenced it. What's odd, is that cases of gyno have been reported from SD use. I personally encountered none but I've read several experiences from users developing gyno from it. Maybe they were prone to it or had developed it and only the mildest increase in estrogen provoked it.
What I meant was, if the product actually provided in the capsules is what is claimed.
That structure would not give any increase an estrogen, not even "the mildest."
For example, perhaps a cheaper but aromatizing substance might be included or be the only substance actually present. I would have no way of knowing if this is ever the case.
I'm no chemist but uh, correct me if I'm wrong. Superdrol chemical structure is similar to Anadrol and Masteron right? Which makes me think it's a DHT derivative? Correct me if I'm wrong, hence no aromatization. I've read something being linked with superdrol effect on prolactin levels which translate into higher estrogen conversion of testosterone. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. If this is the case what could be a possible solution to counter act this?
Well, you raise an interesting point and possibility:
While I don't know if prolactin itself increases levels of aromatase (simple lack of knowledge) it is known that prolactin potentiates the effect of corticosteroids on increasing aromatase levels.
If this effect is so pronounced that despite testosterone production being suppressed, and therefore the amount of substrate for aromatase being reduced, total aromatization increases anyway then that could be the mechanism and then Nolvadex, Clomid, or an AI would logically solve the problem.
That said, I hadn't thought -- not that I must have been right, but I hadn't thought --[ that prolactin-induced gyno was in terms of mechanism actually still only estrogen-caused gyno via more aromatase, but rather assumed that prolactin was itself a culprit. Being involved in milk production made that seem not an unreasonable possibility.
That was the thought of my Nolvadex/Clomid post, that there might well be a prolactin effect here and I hadn't thought that Nolvadex or Clomid solved that.
But if it is the case that prolactin is a culprit ONLY from increasing aromatase via increasing the effect of corticosteroids in upregulating aromatase, then perhaps so.
Btw it could be the case -- just as a chance matter really on any androgen for which there is no data on the matter and if lacking a basis from practical use to judge whether there is an important effect in this regard or not -- that Superdrol could have corticosteroid activity. It's very common for androgens to have some activity at corticosteroid receptors as agonists or antagonists.
If it both acts as a corticosteroid and increases prolactin, that could be a double whammy. (Scientific term there.)
Damn. That's some food for thought there. On a second tought..if it is really the case that 'prolactin is a culprit ONLY from increasing aromatase via increasing the effect of corticosteroids in upregulating aromatase', would a drug such as Dostinex (cabergoline) help lower said prolactin levels?
Thanks again for your informative replies. Damn you make me want to study chemistry!