Hey everyone, I was just wondering about some of your personal experiences using Androsol. Not so much in the muscle gain factor, but rather, do any of those nasty side effects listed on the bottle call for any concern? I’ve searched around through t-mag and this forum, and found pretty much nothing but positives. I suppose I’m just looking for that extra “don’t be a wuss and go for it” assurance. Furthermore, I also got Tribex … do you feel it’s a good idea to cycle that in a week or two beforehand like I’ve seen suggested? I’m going to do this, and I want to do it right. Thanks!
By the way, here are the reasons for the nasty warnings.
We feel that anything that there is any evidence that a user of a produc might experience in terms of bad effects, they should be informed that it is possible. Even if it is unlikely.
The FTC had recently required Met-Rx to use a similar label on their andro product, and we decided to use similar language except omitting risk of gynecomastia since we are convinced there is no such risk.
Other companies are not putting such warnings
on their products – the Met-Rx precedent didn’t hold – but since so far as we know these adverse consequences are possible, the label remains. Actually I would prefer rewriting it because many of them are risks only with excessive use, whereas the label sounds as though they are risks with any use at all. But we have not printed new labels as yet and there is no immediate plan to do so, though there might be an advantage in having labels that were not unnecessarily scary, as the current one is.
G-spot, The possible side effects are highly unlikely. Andro is limited in its copnversion to test by your own enzymes which are finite. this means your test will only get so high then level out. the diol’s lack the chemical structure to convert to estrogen. there are tons of other reasons that show this stuff to be safe. DO A CYCLE! (and use the tribex…tribex is my favorite legal test booster…just takes a couple of weeks to start to kick in)
The amount of 4-AD that converts to Testosterone is a non-issue. 4-Androstenediol is a potent androgenic steroid in its unconverted state. Like DHT, 4-Androstenediol is a metabolite of Testosterone rather than a precursor, so it’s probably stronger than straight Testosterone. However, since some of the 4-AD converts back into Testosterone, it can technically be called a “prohormone” of Testosterone. But in reality, Testosterone is a “prohormone” of 4-Androstenediol! Bill, step on me if I’m wrong here. But I wouldn’t worry too much about side-effects because 4-AD does not reduce into the unwanted and most feared hormone, estradiol. I’ve done quite a few cycles of Androsol and have had little or no side-effects. I have experienced testicle shrinkage from it, but that is because I cycled longer than two weeks. It’s nothing to worry about though, your testicles will regain their original size again within a few weeks of stopping the cycle.
Jason, by the technical meaning of the word, neither 4-AD nor testosterone is a prohormone. A prohormone, or a prodrug, is itself inactive and is converted in the body to an active drug.
You are correct that a lot of testosterone in the body, perhaps most, is converted to 4-AD, since total 4-AD level is higher than total T level, and (not generally recognized) much of the androgen activity in the body must be from this 4-AD.
Thanks guys … I appreciate the feedback. I’m probably going to start on Monday … so I’ll be sure to let you know of my results … peace.
That’s interesting, Bill. I’ve read similar things before. Some claim that most of the androgenic activity in the body is the result of DHT rather than Testosterone. I’m sure it’s actually a combination of all the androgens. Do you know how Testosterone got the reputation for being the principle male sex hormone? In most medical books, the two principle male sex hormones mentioned are Testosterone and Androsterone. What the hell is Androsterone? G-Spot, good luck with your cycle! Remember to eat lots of protein and train hard and you’ll be impressed with your gains.
You know, Jason, when you stay on topic, you can be pretty helpful.
Warrior Spirit, I thank you for the compliment. But I never go off topic. I merely give my spin on philosophical opinions raised by others. As I’m sure you’ve noticed, I respond to threads more often than I start them. Accusing me of being “off topic” is merely an attempt to stifle my message. I’ve been through it on usenet newsgroups, and have even lost a Webtv account because left-wing internet terrorists put my ISP under pressure. Now that I’ve got a computer and a new ISP, the left-wing cyber terrorists have applied the same pressure to my current ISP, and I’ve been warned by my ISP to stay out of the newsgroups or my ISP will terminate my account. This terrorism against an idea perpetrated by these left-wing Jewish internet groups (and they are Jewish) is nothing short of deplorable. The left-wing bigots that I am referring to are “hate watch,” “Nizkor,” “Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith,” “Jewish Defense League,” etc., ad nauseam. I have even received death threats from these Jewish proponents of “brotherhood” and “tolerance.” Before you condemn me, ask yourself one question: Who are the real haters?
Exactly how much higher is 4-AD than T? Are we talking 100% or say 100 fold? thanks
Androsterone is like DHT in that it is 5alpha reduced; it is like androstenedione in that it has a 17-keto group (and therefore is itself inactive); and is like the minor alpha isomer of 4-AD in that it has a 3-alpha hydroxy group, unlike most androgens, e.g. testosterone, which have a 3-keto.) It is a urinary metabolite which seems to be of no importance in the body except as a route of steroid excretion.
Why 4-AD has been virtually ignored, compared to testosterone, I don’t know. It’s a mystery. I’d guess that the reasons have to do with analytical chemistry, and urinary excretion. For most of the period when androgens were heavily researched – they are not now –
much of the analysis was urinary analysis. 4-AD and testosterone interconvert in the body, and testosterone is readily metabolized and excreted in the urine, whereas I am not sure that 4-AD is to any appreciable extent. In other words, the 4-AD is excreted via being converted to testosterone first. This could create the illusion that “everything is testosterone.”
Secondly, to do analytical chemistry, you need to have a reference standard. You need to have a bottle which contains the particular substance and which is certified to be that substance (the structure has been determined with complete confidence.)
From what I heard, Steraloids (the major supplier of steroid reference standards) did not have 4-AD reference standards until very recently. So the lack of the reference standards may have kept anyone from measuring amounts of 4-AD, and even more importantly, dissuaded them from WANTING to measure it.
These are just guesses.
The University study we commissioned found baseline levels of total 4-AD to be more than 60% higher than baseline total testosterone. So it’s not massively more, but it is more.
I have used Nandrosol (haven’t used Androsol) with absolutely, positively zero side effects. I was quite concerned since I am prone to breaking out, but Nandrosol caused no such problems. By the way, is taking 4 weeks off after a 2-week (70 sprays twice daily) cycle really necessary with Nandrosol? Also, any suggestions (Bill :)) on how best to incorporate Nandrosol into a 6-week cutting cycle? Thanks for everything.
No, it isn’t necessary to take a full 4 weeks
off and the labels for the new product, I want to say, 2 weeks on, 2 to 4 weeks off.
The 4 weeks off recommendation was because I knew that with pharmaceutical steroids taken in substantial dosages, 2 on / 4 off let you put many cycles back to back without testicle shrinkage problems, whereas 2 on / 2 off gave
a slow cumulative loss, so two or three cycles were OK but put a year of them together and you had a problem.
Androsol is less inhibitory, and I have a strong suspicion (unproven though) that Nandrosol is still less inhibitory, so I would be surprised if there were significant shrinkage from even a year of 2 on / 2 off.
Can’t guarantee there wouldn’t, but I’m
perfectly fine with people sometimes taking
2 weeks off and sometimes taking 4 weeks off.
Or for that matter, sometimes going 6 or 8 weeks straight, which if you’re in a hurry for your cutting cycle, I would do.
Thanks for your reply. Just want to clarify one thing, though: I was under the impression that, since Nandrosol doesn’t have anything to do with affecting the body’s testosterone levels (unlike Androsol, if you don’t cycle off it occasionally), that there is no risk whatsoever of testicular shrinkage with Nandrosol, even if you stay on it for 6 or 8 weeks straight. Am I wrong?
Bill, thanks for your reply.
I just had a humorous thought. Now that we know that the real King of the Androgens is 4-AD, when are you guys going to change the name of the magazine from “Testosterone” to “4-Androstenediol”? Also, you guys need to recall all those Testosterone t-shirts and make new ones that say 4-Androstenediol in big yellow letters! We’ll need to rename T-man and call him 4-AD man.
Damici, all androgens at high enough doses have inhibitory effect on LH production and therefore testosterone production. Some androgens, e.g. trenbolone, are very inhibitory even at levels that aren’t enough yet for good anabolism, while others, e.g. methenolone (Primo) don’t give substantial inhibition with levels that are good enough for reasonable anabolism (as dose increases yet further they can be quite inhibitory though.)
Nor-4-AD is low inhibitory but certainly not no-inhibitory.
Dude, don’t be wuss! Just go for it!