T Nation

Androsol and Women

I know women should not take androsol, but I plan to. My goal is to gain some mass and lose some fat. How can I make this as safe as possible. What are the side effects that I will receive. I plan on staying on it for more than 2 weeks. I have taken it for a week now and feel great

Well, since there are no long-term real-world results to use as a guide, let’s think about this problem closely to make a good estimate.

First, how much 4-AD is absorbed? From the standpoint of “worst-case” and risks, the worst-case is the highest possible absorption. A very, very knowledgeable PhD in
the field of transdermal delivery tells me that I am
way off in my estimations of delivery and he expects that
at least 50-70% and possibly even more of the applied 4-AD is delivered. (We do plan on measuring percentage delivered, by the way, in the near future.)

So, let’s say he is right and as much as 70% may be absorbed. In that case, you absorb 5 mg per spray.

Now, 4-AD once in the system is just as potent as testosterone, as shown in animal studies, and just as virilizing. For a woman, 5 mg/day of testosterone is
a reasonable maximum and may be virilizing for some. 10 mg is pushing it. So this “worst case scenario” would say,
no more than 1 or 2 sprays per day.

I do not expect that this “worst case scenario” is correct
however. Based on efficacy and the known potency of 4-AD once in the system, it does not seem possible this much
is being absorbed.

For sure however Androsol at maximal dose give more results
than 500 mg/week of testosterone usually dose and often
results like what you’d expect from 750 mg/week. By no
means does it give less than this range. On a per day
basis, that’s having 1000 mg of applied 4-AD equal to 100
mg/day of injected testosterone. This would be 10% efficiency as the “best case” for estimating risk of side effects.

Let’s say this is right. Then each 7 sprays, not each 1 spray, gives you 5 mg. And therefore 7 sprays per day would be a reasonable dose for a woman, though one that might cause virilization for some. IMPORTANT: This estimation is the absolute “best case” that is possible – no way that it
could take more than about 7 sprays to be equivalent to
5 mg of testosterone and it might be as little as 1 spray.

Based on some limited results on women, observing CNS and libido effects, the 7 sprays value seems to be reasonable.

Best guess is that the “true value” for percent absorption
is between those extremes. 30% is a good guess. We will, as I said, be measuring this however because a quantitative answer would be a good thing!

Thank You for the long reply and your time. So are you saying that I should only take 7 sprays a day compared to 70 that a man would take. This week I have been taking 50 sprays a day. In laymans terms what is going to happen to me if I continue to take 50 sprays a day?

You might end up looking and sounding like a male in drag and your clitoris could grow bigger than your thumb. These effects can be permanent. If you must use an hormonal anabolic either wait for Nandrosol or get some Primo, these are supposed to be more girl friendly. Also Primo in the right dose will produce the same or greater gains as Androsol.

Lori, since 50 sprays a day will give a man androgen levels way above his normal levels, I am sure it would be virilizing to a woman given time, causing facial hair growth and lowering of voice among other things. This I am sure is way too much.

Even 7 sprays may be too much but it is a reasonable guess that it is okay for most women. Some women virilize somewhat over time just from their natural androgen levels (think Bea Arthur or some truck-driver-type women) and for them one would expect any further increase at all to just accelerate that. Some women who don’t show any signs of natural virilization at all have nonetheless, in medical treatment, been remarkable sensitive to androgens, for example seeing the voice permanently changed from a single 50 mg injection of nandrolone decanoate, or from a couple of weeks of use of 1 Dianabol per day. This is documented. So there is no guaranteed-safe amount.

Wolfgang is completely correct, Primobolan would be a superior choice. 50 mg/week while sometimes excessive is a reasonable dose usually for a female competitor, and many can handle 100 mg/week. On the other hand, the only way you find out it is too much, is by observing symptoms which may already be irreversible… For this reason I have a hard time, an impossible time actually, being enthusiastic about recommending androgens to women except possibly at quite modest doses. And with the definite exception of hormone
replacement therapy designed to bring her androgen levels back up to the normal female value: this is very beneficial.

What is the maximum sprays that I can take at one time. I plan on staying on for 6-8 weeks. I would think in that short of time I would not suffer any virilizing effects,Right?

So If I take 50 sprays a day for 6-8 weeks do you think I will grow facial hair and my voice will deepen as well as visaril effects or is there just a chance of this happening?. Is there any circumstances that you would recommend a women to take androsol? Thank You again for your help.

Lori, Sorry to be harsh but it appears that youre not getting the point. Your “what is the max I can get away with” is completely misguided and downright silly. There is no easy answer to this question. Bill doesnt know, I dont know, no one does. You will be the only one to know and you will find out when you virulize (i.e. facial hair growth, clitoral growth, hardening of you facial features, potential long term sexual and reproductive dysfunction). Why the heck would you want to risk this for a bit of progress that you could otherwise get from other anabolics? Take some cyclo-norandrostenediol. This will work just as well without the side effects. With pure androgens, as little as 10 sprays per day may f- you over or it may take 50 sprays to do so. The bottom line is that even 7 sprays per day is taking a chance. And in response to your response that 6-8 weeks isnt long enough to see negative effects…It certaily is! >2 weeks is enough to shut down LH and T production in men. What makes you think you’ll be immune to such effects! Take it easy and make a reasonable decision.

John is absolutely right, and there are cases in the medical literature of women suffering permanent change in voice in as little as 2 weeks – just a single injection of 50 mg Deca or taking one Dianabol (5 mg) per day for a couple of weeks. I would however disagree that norandrodiol or cyclonorandrodiol (nor-4-AD) has no risks: it also can virilize. All androgens can. If you must use an androgen, Primobolan is the best choice: many women (but not all) can get away with sometimes using 50 mg/week for a cycle and get good benefits. Some get bit and wind up with hoarse or lowered voices, permanently. It’s your gamble and there is
no way to use androgens and yet remain perfectly safe.

Okay, exception being… a woman who in the past got away with using 100 mg/week Primo for 10 weeks, let’s say, and
saw absolutely no adverse effects, could say confidently
that if she uses 50 mg/week for a shorter time frame that
almost certainly little or no virilization will occur since
she has already demonstrated that her “threshold” is above that dosage level. Beginning users are not in that position however and for them it is pure guesswork and some will always lose.