T Nation

Androgel or Injections?


#1

I have been to my endcronologist and had 3 blood tests. The first coming in at 322 second at 319 then the last at 277. I am going into get treatment and was wondering what people on here prefer. Androgel or injections.

I have a very hairy chest and am afraid gels would not absorb well. I am looking to raise it enough to get a higher libido and get muscle mass gains. Any insight would be very much appreciated.


Issue Pinning Glutes
#2

[quote]godzillabob2 wrote:
I have been to my endcronologist and had 3 blood tests. The first coming in at 322 second at 319 then the last at 277. I am going into get treatment and was wondering what people on here prefer. Androgel or injections.

I have a very hairy chest and am afraid gels would not absorb well. I am looking to raise it enough to get a higher libido and get muscle mass gains. Any insight would be very much appreciated. [/quote]

Injections are the preferred choice. You can inject subcutaneously and painlessly with small insulin syringes into the belly fat around your navel.

Get your doc to watch this youtube video:


#3

Please read the advice for new guys sticky.


#4

[quote]godzillabob2 wrote:
I have been to my endcronologist and had 3 blood tests. The first coming in at 322 second at 319 then the last at 277. I am going into get treatment and was wondering what people on here prefer. Androgel or injections.

I have a very hairy chest and am afraid gels would not absorb well. I am looking to raise it enough to get a higher libido and get muscle mass gains. Any insight would be very much appreciated. [/quote]
The nurse treating me, told me that she wanted my T level in the upper end of the normal range. She flat out told me that gel would not get me that high. She said in her experience, that gel raised T levels only 100-300 points.

But also, I was starting with a much lower T level than you (170.2).


#5

Is that the video where he states that you should not use an insulin needle because the jet of T would cause tissue damage? He made an idiot of himself saying that because he clearly had never tried and was making things up. Injection rates are slow and cannot create damaging velocities.


#6

Agree with KSman. SC T injections are fine and Crisler made an butt of himself in that video. I do a few things that he says not to do and my labs are perfect. After 7 years of SC TRT I think what I’m doing is ok.

That said I went to see Crisler a long time ago and he’s a good guy. His practice took off to the point where he’s very difficult to deal with but he’s a decent dude.


#7

I use the video simply as an “evangelic” tool to get the word out that subcutaneous injections are an easy painless procedure for TRT that work. I didn’t quite know what to think about several of comments.

But sub q is a viable method of administering hormone replacement.

I use 1/2 inch 27G and 28G insulin syringes for my injections. I pinch the fat up, but release it before I push the plunger. I rotate around my navel then go back to a different intramuscular shot in my rotation, then start all over again. Rotation is of paramount importance.


#8

Out of 10 Test subq shots, I get bruising 2/10 times, plus a big nodule… Last time, the bruising was about the size of an orange. Sometimes pain for 1-2 days, and takes the better part of a week for the bruise to go away.

I use a 27 gauge, 1/2 needle. Aim for a circle 2inches out, no more than 6 inches from my belly button. Each time, I rotate “around the belly button”. My T shot is .25ML 2x week. I make sure to aspirate, go slow, and don’t pinch the skin – aka follow Dr. Chrisler’s protocol.

Not sure if it’s just me, or if I’m doing something wrong… But I find the subq T shot highly problematic. I’ve since switched back to IM.

No issues with HCG.


On a side note, thanks KSMan for your counsel about backing my 200ML, AI 1MG, 1000 HCG weekly regime in half.

Feeling much better. Less oily scalp, general malaise, etc. Libido, gains in gym, brain fog, mood, etc. all in the green.

As many have said, and in my case, less T is more.


#9

[quote]conservativedog wrote:
I use the video simply as an “evangelic” tool to get the word out that subcutaneous injections are an easy painless procedure for TRT that work. I didn’t quite know what to think about several of comments.

But sub q is a viable method of administering hormone replacement.

I use 1/2 inch 27G and 28G insulin syringes for my injections. I pinch the fat up, but release it before I push the plunger. I rotate around my navel then go back to a different intramuscular shot in my rotation, then start all over again. Rotation is of paramount importance.[/quote]

Out of curiosity why do you pinch the fat when u inject? Also why do you inject intramuscularly as well as sub Q. I also use 27g and inject sub q in the abdomen.


#10

Back to the OP
If you want real results push for injection.
Androgel may increase your libido, but it won’t do much in the way of adding any significant muscle.

IM or SubQ
I personally hate SubQ, although some don’t mind it, and it can be a useful buffer when you want to inject
just once or maybe twice per week. It always leaves a nodule, and they are bothersome and uncomfortable IME.

@Conservative D, I’ve read that SubQ test should stay away from the navel, something about
the test being eliminated faster from the area, YMMV.

I inject with a 29g 1/2 slin pin into my delts on a daily basis, but I use small amounts 12.5mg/day.
The injections are painless and leave no nodules.


#11

I have been using both androgel and test C . Each has benifits I want . Gel boosts my libido , test boost my test !


#12

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

Out of curiosity why do you pinch the fat when u inject? Also why do you inject intramuscularly as well as sub Q. I also use 27g and inject sub q in the abdomen. [/quote]

It just feels weird sticking the needle in fat without pinching. As soon as the needle is in I release the pinched area as I mentioned and before I push plunger.

I have half a box of 25G 5/8 and maybe 40 or so 23G 1.5 inch syringes left. I still do intramuscular injections as part of the rotation of injection points. The more injection sites the longer it takes to get back around to the first one causing less scar tissue.

Scar tissue can develop in the fatty tissue as well as in muscle. It gets corky thick, so those insulin syringe shots around the navel need to move to a different location each injection. I know this to be true because of a friend who has had type I diabetes since third grade. All those years of ab injections left a thick scaring on both sides of his navel.

Delts, quads and glutes are what I use im.

Here’s from steroid forum and how many ml they im inject.

Lateral Delt: 1-2 ml
Front Delt: 1- 2 ml
Traps: 1-2 ml
Lats: 2-3 ml
Biceps: 1ml
Glutes: 2-3 ml easily
Quads: Most do 1-2 but once again I handle 3ml fine.
Calves: 1ml tops

“16 different locations if you take into account left and right side. Plenty of places you can easily hit on your own. If you have a girl friend or some one to help you can hit even a few more.” (per reed)

By the way to the person that said they aspirate on sub q injections… you don’t aspirate fatty tissue.

Just don’t be like these numb nutts who fail to aspirate syringe on a im chest injections and one guy shoots through his nipple…


#13

Thanks for this Conservative Dog


#14

I have tried SC belly and legs. With belly I get lumps but not on legs. Others report opposite. So experiment. I always suggest pressing in injection point when needle comes out, for 15 seconds or so. That allows blood vessels to seal off and prevents bruising. Also helps to avoid veins and I can see those on my legs.


#15

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]godzillabob2 wrote:
I have been to my endcronologist and had 3 blood tests. The first coming in at 322 second at 319 then the last at 277. I am going into get treatment and was wondering what people on here prefer. Androgel or injections.

I have a very hairy chest and am afraid gels would not absorb well. I am looking to raise it enough to get a higher libido and get muscle mass gains. Any insight would be very much appreciated. [/quote]

Injections are the preferred choice. You can inject subcutaneously and painlessly with small insulin syringes into the belly fat around your navel.

Get your doc to watch this youtube video:


[/quote]

Actually the very doctor in that video prefers gels to injections, when they work for a given patient, because gels approximate the natural diurnal variation in testosterone levels (morning peak and evening trough) that occurs in young men, whereas injections give levels are are pretty much constant during the course of a given day, a profile that looks much more like that of an old man.

There are high concentration gels available cheaply (compared to androgel) from compounding pharmacies. They can be applied over a much smaller area (e.g, inner forearms), so having a hairy torso is not a problem. Also, they can give you higher T levels than Androgel.


#16

It seems like everyone starts with the gel and then hits the needle after a year or so. Never heard anyone going back. The gel just takes the stigma out of it.

conservativedog love the SQ but my concerns are the same as KSman. But with a 27G it may not be that bad.

conservativedog,
How were you labs when you switched IM to SQ?