T Nation

Androgel & Clomid?

There’s a guy I know from my gym that’s around my age (55) who gets Androgel by prescription and he also takes Clomid that he buys from “a source.” He claims that the Clomid prevents all or most of the negative possible side effects from the Androgel and swears by the combo. He’s got an impressive physique for any age, so I can’t argue with his results. He’s very muscular and while I wouldn’t call him ripped to shreds, he is very lean (no breast fat and visible abs). In short, exactly how I want to look.

My guy says he can’t get the Clomid from his HMO because they don’t approve it for men.

So what’s the scoop on the Androgel/Clomid stack? Have you tried it? If it works exactly as he claims, why wouldn’t it be part of mainstream HRT therapy? The reading I’ve done from places like www.mesomorphosis.com seems to indicate that many guys on juice also take Clomid to prevent estrogen problems which seem to be among the major negative side effects of Androgel. As I understand it, the testosterone from the Androgel can be converted to estrogen and that causes the typical estrogen problems of enlarged breasts and fat retention. Are there any strategies to prevent the conversion of testosterone to estrogen? Clomid is clearly more of an after-the-fact remedy.

I’ll be seeing my owm primary care guy from my HMO next week to start the HRT process and so I want to have my ducks lined up before I go in.

You can learn alot from Meso, especially in the Mens Helath Section. I am no HRT expert, but Clomid is a SERM, like Nolvadex. I would imagine that Clomid w/ Androgel would help with amortization issues from the test. Clomid also helps stimulate the Pituitary to produce natural test. Some HRT users use Armidex in the HRT regimens. There are several guys on here who could explain that better than me.

What are your Natural Test levels?

Good post, and the combo is well worth researching.

I haven’t had my blood work done yet, but I did one of the mail-order saliva kits. They listed 50 to 200 as normal and I came in at 19! I was pretty shocked and disheartened but at least it got me into action to make an appointment with my doctor to start the ball rolling. My HMO will pay half of the cost of the scrip and office visits even with specialists are only $20 so the cost isn’t going to be an issue. I’ll be pushing hard to get with an endocrinologist but I imagine that it’s going to take several weeks.

My experience with HMO physicians is that they’re under pressure to keep the costs down and so will try to low ball your treatment unless you’re educated about the issues and know what to ask for. They aren’t going to volunteer a whole lot, but if you confront them directly and know what you’re talking about, they’ll cave in give you what you ask for as long as it is medically sound. We’re not fooling around here with trivial stuff so I’m going to go in armed to the teeth with well informed questions.

[quote]Over40 wrote:
You can learn a lot from Meso, especially in the Mens Health Section.[/quote]

Thanks for the tip! I found a ton of solid information that I wasn’t able to find elsewhere. I wouldn’t have gone into their forums otherwise. Doh! After 15 years on the net, you’d think I’d have it burned into my brain by now that forums (like this one) are often the best sources for information.

T-Nation has a higher profile than places like Meso among mainstream guys and I’ll certainly be doing what I can to help those looking for information just like I am.

Thanks for the heads up on Arimidex as well. Hopefully I’ll find a good endocrinologist that will work with me. They also have a sticky there for finding a good doctor. Very helpful.

Thanks again!

[quote]Over40 wrote:
You can learn a lot from Meso, especially in the Mens Health Section. I am no HRT expert, but Clomid is a SERM, like Nolvadex. I would imagine that Clomid w/ Androgel would help with amortization issues from the test. Clomid also helps stimulate the Pituitary to produce natural test. Some HRT users use Arimidex in the HRT regimens. There are several guys on here who could explain that better than me.

What are your Natural Test levels?[/quote]

Clomid and other SERMs blind the feedback system to the blood levels of test and E, which uncouples the feedback system to some extent. That allows the production of LH in an open-loop fashion. So LH can be higher that ever in some cases and the testes will not shut down or not as badly.

Anti aromatase drugs like Arimidex reduce the conversion of estrogen to testosterone. The testes will shut down as LH will be deeply repressed. In this case, HCG can be used to keep the testes from shrinking and perhaps hurting. That can also add nature test to the dosed levels.

Note that SERMs do not reduce E levels at all and might actually increase them a bit. E is a threat to the prostate and many have other negative effects. High E also reduces libido, but perhaps the SERM’s reduce that effect. Don’t know much about that.

I feel that for HRT, long term use of a SERM with E levels unchecked may have some negative consequences.

Anti aromatase drugs also need HCG if the testes are not to shrink and atrophy.

One SERM, Femara, is do effective that E can be eliminated, which also kills libido and create CVS heath problems. For this reason, it is considered to be dangerous.