T Nation

Andro History

Wasting money? You decide.

DHEA - Yay! a T booster
Androstene - Yay! a direct precursor to T
Androdiol - Yay! 3 times as affective
Cyclodextrin - Superior absorbtion
Androsol - Aha! more superior absorbtion

What’s next? is this some kind of scheme for everyone to waste money on? that’s what I want to know.

Or, you could call it progress.

Androsol works.

Other than protein, creatine, and an occasional thermogenic, my feeling is get the “real stuff” if you are inclined to further supplement. The vast majority of products sold are hype, and you can do a real cycle for the same cost or less. Use steroids with some intelligence, and you will never have a problem.

Well, it all depends on who you’re dealing with and talking about. For example, along the lines that you’re saying, there’s an individual in the prohormone industry who, when he was selling only androstenedione and had introduced it to the market (not discovered it, it had been known for a long time and Dan Duchaine told him about it) swore that it was a powerful muscle builder.

That is, until he started selling oral 4-AD.
At this point it was admitted androstenedione
didn’t work to build muscle, but oral 4-AD
was a wonder.

Of course we’ve all found out that oral 4-AD
is not that effective.

So if the same individual comes out with another new product and swears it is an incredible muscle builder, I’d agree, there’s a credibility problem.

On the other hand, if you’re talking about
Biotest products, Biotest hasn’t released
any prohormone flops. We waited until we
had something that worked. I know that Biotest
was looking into other prohormone ideas before
Androsol (both formulations and simple things like just selling 4-AD capsules as everyone else does) and rejected them all, because they
just didn’t work well enough. So I don’t think your credibility argument applies to Biotest.

I saw an ad in either ironman or musclemag that showed a 4-ADiol spray. They acted like they had just come up with it. Isnt that some bullshit.

Hmmmm…one day, I’m gonna give Androsol or Nandrosol a try. I’ve just been very weary about taking anything but practical supplements (MRP’s, bars, fat burners) since the HMB bullshit. But, I think that these type of supplements, even DHEA, would be helpful to older folks who have natural declining hormone levels. A young guy isn’t probably going to see much difference (I may be wrong about Biotest’s sprays though, I’ve never tested them.)

Androsol works great with me - I used to combine it with DHEA and some other shit (like Pinnacle poppers & Paradeca) and found I see real results if I ONLY use Androsol! Be careful about cycles though - Since Androsol keeps blood level Testosterone levels high throughout the night your body is more likely to suppress T-levels if you use it too long. Other Prohormones usually don’t aren’t as likely to do this (and they don’t work) unless you take them right before bed time.

Well, I tried then all they way up the ladder, starting with DHEA, then Andro-6 or whatever that EAS product was called etc… The only thing that’s worked so far is androsol. Can’t wait to see what’s next up the ladder! N-17E?

I got more from tribex than androsol. I did get sticky skin from androsol, though.

OK here is my 2 cents and mayby Bill Roberts can explain why this happened to me. I started with prohormones with Weiders Androstiendione. Within a day I found a DECREASED sex drive and difficulty in preforming…shall we say. Having NEVER had this issue before (usually quite the opposite) it scared the hell out of me so I tossed out the bottle and had no problems after that. After that I tried Biotests Androsol AND Tribex and had the EXACT same issue as well as once I was finally able to get him to work…it was impossible to climax. At this point I was completely disgusted. However I decided to try the Nandrosol, and to my amazement…I love the stuff. I take it with Tribex, and everyone tells me how pleasant I have been lately…and I feel happy as hell. I have also…no exaggeration…put 3/4 of an inch on my arms in 3 weeks of Nandro use. So my 2 cents are Andro…NO Nandro…OH YEA!!!

Well, in response to whopper’s question,
I can’t really explain your
result where Androsol decreased libido (as did androstenedione) but
Nandrosol did not.

The only hypothesis I can come up with is
that, as with some men, you experience
a response where when androgen levels are
too high, pretty far above normal, libido
decreases. Androsol gives very high blood
4-AD levels and while for most users, this
helps libido, maybe for your individual
response those levels were overkill so far
as your libido is concerned. And Nandrosol
seems to give less stimulation to the
nervous system with regard to libido than Androsol does, so maybe with the nor-4-AD
you avoided the “too much” problem.

That is just speculation.

As for androstenedione, maybe the high
estrogen levels from it did you in.

Bill thanks so much for the response…because it confused the hell out of me. With the Nandro…I feel NO real sexual side effects, but I do have a great feeling of well-being. Now based on your comments…I am willing to have my drive decresed for a bit here and there if it results in significant gains…it isnt too bad of a trade off if it is limited. (My wife would probably actually be glad for it…lol) My question is how would it work to use all nandro one day and all andro the next and keep switching back and forth? To me this would give the enzymes in the body time to recover and should actually produce better gains with the limited andro side effects for me, but I am not a scientist…so I ask your opinion Bill. Thanks!

I think the Bio-Test products work pretty well. Definitely not ‘snakeoil’. I’ve used MethOxy, MD6, Nandrosol, Androsol, ZMA, and Tribex. I’ve got samples of Grow but haven’t tried it yet.

Like Nandrosol over Androsol. I’ve done 2 cycles of Nandro/Andro (40/30 sprays 2x/day) and gotten decent results. But when I ordered my last stack from my supplier (not Bio-Test) they shipped 2 bottles of Andro instead of one-of-each. Did Andro only for a week and I didn’t like it (very sticky, felt a little too aggressive). I’ve switched now to Nandro only (w/MethOxy and Tribex) while on Fat Fast. Its much cleaner and I feel better.

what’s next? (and i think i have seen this somewhere before) prohormones in an oil-based carrier “for topical use only” that are meant to be injected… never used injectables but you had better believe if i am going to take a dart in the ass, it is going to be with something that is effective

Hey Rush7,

If you don’t think that an ester of 4-AD
(let’s say diacetate for the sake of
arguement) is not a super effective product
if in oil and used as an injectable than
you have a stunning lack of chemical and
pharmacological knowledge.

There is incontrovertible evidence that
4-AD is pretty similar to straigh testosterone
WRT to efficacy. It is also safer because
there is no direct aromatization issues.

I guarantee you that if you had 4-AD-acetate
in oil and shot 50mg per day you would
be quite impressed.

Additionally, if you had a bottle of
4-AD-cypionate and a bottle of testosterone
cypionate (both at 200mg/ml) I bet you would
prefer the 4-AD in short order.

The notion of prohormone vs. hormone is
stupid. Almost all hormones are
“prohormones” of something else.
Testosterone is a “prohormone” of
epitestosterone and dihydrotestosterone.
Big deal.

Right now 4-AD is the best legal hormone
on the market.

That’s my new nomenclature!!!

Legal hormone versus Rx hormone.
To hell with this prohormone/hormone stuff.

Brock

Brock, (good to see you back on the board…i thought you weren’t coming back til april or so…) so i guess i did basically come off and say (or at least sound like) that this doesn’t seem effective. please let me clearify. i do think this would probably have a better utilization rate (bang for the $) than, say, oral 4-AD or androsol or basically any other method of delivery, but i still wouldn’t think this would be superior to stuff regarded as steroids, although 4-AD is steroidal in its own right. perhaps its just the whole anti-steroid hype brought to us from the disillusioned media and the fact that Rx steroids are scheduled drugs. it just seems like something that is illegal would work better…

interesting point of view about prohormones and test being a ‘prohormone’ of DHT and the like. i don’t know, maybe its just the thought of injecting something “legal”…i’m surprised the companies that make oil-based prohormone injectables haven’t ruined 4-AD for people taking the same product topically or orally. i figured the fda would have pounced on this by now. so you think 4-AD-cyp would be more effectve than test cyp in the short run? would this be due to the class I/II synergy you would get from both the converted and unconverted 4-AD? this is interesting, though i didn’t know anyone had esterified 4-AD. (wouldn’t this classify it as scheduled, though?)

yeah, i probably shouldn’t have shot off my mouth on this post, but my aim (though it is said nowhere in the prev post) was getting at the fact that some companies that make these products could possibly ruin the legality of 4-AD. nonetheless, it is good to hear from the master himself and get this info. hell i’ll take a “stunning lack of chemical and pharmacological knowledge” shot to my ego any day if i get some good info following it…ha ha! later.

Brock, just sifting through the back posts (looking for stuff about the product euphoria) and i saw that you were working on esterified versions of 4-AD (where apparently someone was bitching about you on another board for calling the stuff “brockabol-250”… just wondering if you’ve had any luck with making this (or if you have already). --rush7