T Nation

Andro Gel / Test Cyp

I have been on HRT for about 12 weeks. I would like some opinions on what he prescribed for me. He told me 100mg/week test cyp and supplement the other days with androgel 5gms. I just did my blood work and am waiting for the results.

When I got my blood taken I explained my concern with estrogen levels increasing and testicular shrinkage so I have an appointment with an endo in 2 weeks. I would like some feedback as this is new to me. I am 35 and my original T level was 210
thanks in advance

[quote]bb4life wrote:
I have been on HRT for about 12 weeks. I would like some opinions on what he prescribed for me. He told me 100mg/week test cyp and supplement the other days with androgel 5gms. I just did my blood work and am waiting for the results.

When I got my blood taken I explained my concern with estrogen levels increasing and testicular shrinkage so I have an appointment with an endo in 2 weeks. I would like some feedback as this is new to me. I am 35 and my original T level was 210
thanks in advance[/quote]

210 is just below normal. Take Alpha Male, forget the HRT. Its a trap — you’ll shut off your balls and have to keep taking more and more test, which will convert, and…its just a can of worms.

Alpha Male.

I am new to HRT as well but maybe able to shed some light. First off, the testosterone in gels like Angro Gel have been found to convert to E2(Estrogen) at a much higher rate than injections. If you are already taking the 100mg injection weekly I would probably try to split that dose in half an inject twice a week, drop the gel, and see how that goes. Or better yet, ask doc to up injection dosage to 100mg twice a week and drop the gel. If you are already injecting than this is superior, in my opinion, to gels.

Another reason to also switch to twice weekly injections is that when you inject large quantities of test that larger amount is MORE readily available to be converted to E2. Someone may better explain that later.

What was results, all numbers, of last blood work?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
bb4life wrote:
I have been on HRT for about 12 weeks. I would like some opinions on what he prescribed for me. He told me 100mg/week test cyp and supplement the other days with androgel 5gms. I just did my blood work and am waiting for the results.

When I got my blood taken I explained my concern with estrogen levels increasing and testicular shrinkage so I have an appointment with an endo in 2 weeks. I would like some feedback as this is new to me. I am 35 and my original T level was 210
thanks in advance

210 is just below normal. Take Alpha Male, forget the HRT. Its a trap — you’ll shut off your balls and have to keep taking more and more test, which will convert, and…its just a can of worms.

Alpha Male.

[/quote]

Sigh. So much misinformation out there.

Nowadays hCG is added to a HRT program. These keeps the testicals cranking out T. No testical shutdown. Natural production restored.

I don’t understand the “more and more” part. Many people have been on a set amount of T for decades with no problems. And E is an issue thats easy to curtail with a cheap, simple drug like arimidex.

Let us not forget that test typically runs about 10 - 20 bucks a month, compare that to supplement prices. Not even close on price, or effectiveness.

Lets be real here. Alpha Male is a great supp, but its not for hypogonadal males. This guy is hypogonadal. A supplement is not to be used in place of a prescription drug.

I am currently taking Testim 5g and have been for about 4 months. My T-level at the start was 137. I don’t know what it is now. I just had some blood work done and will get the results on Monday.

I’ve been reading, reading and reading some more on this forum and I do have a few questions that I was hoping you men could help clarify.

  1. At this low of a dose do I need to be concerned about estrogen going up and aromatization? If so, should I take resveratrol or something else?

  2. I do have a lot of hair on my upper arms and shoulders. Should I continue to apply there? I’ve been reading that some apply to the scrotum once the alcohol has dried. Others say apply to the inner thighs and biceps or apply to those areas on your body where there is little hair. What’s the best?

  3. I’m taking 1,000 of niacin B-3 to for the flush to help more gel get absorbed. I don’t know if it’s working or not. Is this a waste of money and not worth the trouble?

  4. Is Alpha Male going to do me any good since I am taking Testim or would I be wasting my money?

[quote]Raw Power wrote:
I am currently taking Testim 5g and have been for about 4 months. My T-level at the start was 137. I don’t know what it is now. I just had some blood work done and will get the results on Monday.

I’ve been reading, reading and reading some more on this forum and I do have a few questions that I was hoping you men could help clarify.

  1. At this low of a dose do I need to be concerned about estrogen going up and aromatization? If so, should I take resveratrol or something else?

  2. I do have a lot of hair on my upper arms and shoulders. Should I continue to apply there? I’ve been reading that some apply to the scrotum once the alcohol has dried. Others say apply to the inner thighs and biceps or apply to those areas on your body where there is little hair. What’s the best?

  3. I’m taking 1,000 of niacin B-3 to for the flush to help more gel get absorbed. I don’t know if it’s working or not. Is this a waste of money and not worth the trouble?

  4. Is Alpha Male going to do me any good since I am taking Testim or would I be wasting my money?[/quote]

  5. I don’t think that E would be a major issue with 5 grams. But I also do not think that T levels will be very high either. Don’t worry about this and wait for your BW then come back with that. If I is high or mid-high normal range you might need to take something, but not supplements. Tell your doc if you get nocturnal wood, morning wood or loss of these etc. Discuss brain fog, mood, depression, sleeping after meals, skin condition and changes, libido and changes. You do not want to be doses strictly by your BW numbers.

  6. Where skin is thinner I would guess. I has seen discussions on this and have not retained what was said. I think that there are concerns about causing hair growth in odd places, or the instructions of where to apply were just a way to tell you not to apply to the genitals. That you read about letting the alcohol flash off then applying to the strotum area should be tried… then you be the judge.

  7. Might work, some claim good results. Niacin is dirt cheap in any case, and will help lower cholesterol.

  8. Waste of money I think strictly from a T level point of view, but it does other things. I have not seen anything that someone on TRT has tried and posted.

We have had some here where transdermals did not work for them, and for those, injecting has been the solution.

Your post is odd in that you do not talk about how you feel and what changes there were, fat loss or not, muscle gain or not, libido changes etc. So its hard for a reader to have any idea if anything is working for you or not.

[quote]KSman wrote:

We have had some here where transdermals did not work for them, and for those, injecting has been the solution.

Your post is odd in that you do not talk about how you feel and what changes there were, fat loss or not, muscle gain or not, libido changes etc. So its hard for a reader to have any idea if anything is working for you or not.[/quote]

KSman,

Thank you for the response and your insights on those questions that I asked. All of that is good to know and helps me in making future decisions.

I realize that the recurring theme time and again on this forum is that injections are far superior to transdermals. I would like to go that route and am unsure if I will be able to convince the doctor to let me do it. He has always been easy to give me what I want in the office.

When he started me on HRT he gave me a shot and then the prescription for Testim. On follow-up visits he wouldn’t give me a shot. After four months I had to talk him into doing blood work to see if this Testim was working or not.

I’ll find out next week whether it is or not. Every time I see the doc I ask him about going to an endo and he tells me, “It’s not necessary”. My doctor is an internist and elderly. I figure it must be a pride issue or something. When I try talking to my doctor about this stuff he just stares at the floor, reaches for the door handle, opens the door and starts walking out while I am trying to talk to him which really ticks me off.

I guess I’ll just have to see what my numbers are in a couple of days and then see if I can get anything out of him.

Yes, I didn’t post anything about how I feel and what changes had occurred since being on the Testim 5g for 4 months because I didn’t want to bore the other readers with those details. However, I will address it since you asked and some of what I may say here might be of help to some others.

First, my weight has not changed in either direction. Before I began HRT I weighed 270 and that is what I weigh now. I haven’t put on any size and that may be because I wasn’t training for that specifically. I was competing in powerlifting and training for strength.

I did start experiencing some staggering strength gains after about six weeks on the Testim 5g. I was honest with the powerlifting federation that I was a part of (USAPL) about having to go on Testim. I have since been “given the boot” from competing and have stopped powerlifting and now just train so I will have to see if I now put on anymore size.

I don’t see how it’s possible because of the years I’ve been training and the size I am now. I figured I am “tapped out” naturally.

Second, my libido, morning and nocturnal wood hasn’t changed much since I have been on the Testim 5g. I occasionally will have morning and nocturnal wood, but I was having that before HRT when my T-level was 137 if you can believe it. My sex life is the same now as it was before HRT. I had no problems before HRT and am having no problems now.

Third, I haven’t noticed any shrinkage of my scrotum or pain in that area that I have read about others experiencing here on this forum. I’ve kept waiting for it to happen.

Fourth, I haven’t experienced the brain fog either. I had no problem before HRT and I don’t have it now. I am able to concentrate, read, write research papers, etc., the same as I did before. My memory capability hasn’t changed either.

Fifth, the only changes I am noticing now physically may be because of my thyroid surgery I had two weeks ago. I had a sub-total thyroidectomy. I had 90% of my thyroid taken out because it was a tumor the size of a billiards cue ball that was pushing in on my trachea and esophagus making it extremely difficult to eat and breathe.

The surgeon did some blood work just recently to let me know that I was “out of business” on that remaining 10% piece of thyroid he left in there and that I was going to need thyroid replacement medication. He wanted my regular doctor to give me the prescription so I am not taking anything currently.

He said it wasn’t a big deal because “it would take a month for the hormone that is left in your body to clear out”. This didn’t make sense to me because the blood work was showing very high TSH which meant hypothyroidism a week ago. I can only imagine what it is now. I have started experiencing some of the symptoms of hypothyroidism and am anxious to get on replacement for this next week when I see my regular doc.

With the background stated above I hope that fills in the blanks on why I was asking the questions I did. I thought the Testim wasn’t being absorbed because of some body hair on my shoulders and upper arms, the niacin may or may not be picking up and helping with absorption and E2 was going up and counter-acting against the Testim. I also thought that Alpha Male might be an alternative, but now I guess that is a waste of money for me.

Based on the evidence it appears that Testim 5g has been a waste of money too even though I did experience some great gains in physical strength for a month that I never had before.

I know it’s been a long post. KSman, I hope this fills in the gaps and maybe helps any other readers who may be experiencing the same things.