T Nation

Anderson and Diaz both Test Positive


#1

Anderson tested positive for Drostanolone (3rd member of his fight team to do so) prior to the fight on jan 9th.

Diaz tested positive for weed post fight.


#2

no surprise here

you got a 40 year old guy coming off a massive injury and he trains/lives where steroids are legal


#3

And Dana White will continue to tout the greatness of a over rated fighter


#4

I don't know what's funnier; Silva's tainted legacy or the fact that people are legitimately shocked that Diaz failed a drug test.


#5

Diaz tells you he failed a piss test
Silva's legacy? the middleweight division was a joke for most of his reign, Rich franklin was the 2nd best guy at 185 ever in most peoples minds so what's that say?


#6

He beat Hendo, Lee Murray, Okami, Lutter, Marquardt, Griffin, Maia, Sonnen, Belfort, Bonnar, Cote, Leites.

Hardly a string of easy cans in my opinion.


#7

Hendo was a credible win yes. Leittes had no reason to be in that fight nor did Maia. Nate the great was a better fighter then than he is/was at welterweight. Bonner and was semi-retired when dana threw him a big name fighter. Cote got injured, but probably would of got decision loss. Murray was a good name but unless people watch him before UFC years they have no idea. His best fight was in Pride against Carlos Newton at what is essentially the UFC'S welterweight limit of 169


#8

Sorry forgot the others you listed.
Belfort front kick was taught to him by Steven Segal lol at least that's what Silva allows people to think. Griffin had one hope to beat him and that was out muscle him see how that worked. Lutter didn't even make weight for a title fight he won on TUF on the comeback season. Sonnen the best for last. Not know for his striking or Bjj skills and still out struck Silva iin the first fight and got caught, impressive to hold on. The 2nd fight was short grabbing, missed spinning backfist then a knee to the chin when grounded so its tainted. So the major of guys were given false shots or at best one dimensional he will always be the 3rd best fighter in MMA history in my eyes


#9

Who were the first and second?


#10

Everyone says fedor/Silva/GSP

In my mind people let nostalgia ruin their perceptions of GOAT status.

Every generation of fighters gets better, not worse, diet, training, access to the sport etc all drive forward. Which is why I find it unrealistic when people mention old boxers and compare them to Tyson or Kilitschko.

In my opinion Jon Jones, GSP, Cain are the greatest and most tested athletes in MMA ever.


#11

I never understand why people feel it's necessary to take down a fighter/boxer that's the best in the world in their respective era. It just flies in the face of any logic. So they're "overrated" because they ruled the division when it was weak. Fine. If it's so damn easy, beat them yourself. Let's see any average Joe step into the ring with, say, the 25th-best fighter in the world at their weight class. They'd get obliterated. Now consider how wide the gap is between #25 and #1.


#12

in my opinion the 1st and 2nd greatest fighters ever are 1st- BJ Penn 2nd- GSP
Fedor was the greatest heavyweight but p4p is so hard to critique in every one else's opinions


#13

Never said he wasn't good or a bum. I take in to account the fact that he is by fight standards a old man coming off a long lay-off from an injury, but I don't see why the UFC pushed him more than a GSP or even a Randy Couture when they where in their respective primes


#14

No surprise with Diaz.

As for Silva,after his injury and long lay off,not really a surprise either.

As for Silva not having any real competition during his run,not so at all.The guy beat EVERYONE that they put in front of him.Some were good,some were not as good but all were all hyped/ranked in the ufc.Whether anyone thinks he had no competition or not,he beat what was there for the longest run of anyone.No denying that.Eventually age catches up to all of us and no matter who you are,if you remain in the game long enough,you'll eventually lose to someone.That doesnt mean all the W's you had prior are meaningless.


#15

Do you guys think he was using throughout his UFC run? It's all speculation for sure, but he could've been.

Anderson didn't face the level of opponents that GSP faced. GSP face Matt Hughes 3x, BJ Penn 2x, Koschek 2x, Carlos Condit, and Nick Diaz, all time greats at 170lbs. And many of the other guys he faced all stayed near the top of the division for years after: Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves, Jake Shields. Compare that to Anderson, who faced a bunch of people who were out of the UFC shortly after, or had to go down a weight class.

Don't get me wrong, Silva's one of the best ever, and he's Top 5. No one won in a more spectacular fashion and he's got the greatest highlight reel of all time. But he's not the best fighter of his era, let alone of all time.

Even if you have him ahead of GSP as most do, it's all moot since Jon Jones might already be the greatest ever. I was hesitant to say it for a while but after what the Cormier fight it's really hard to deny it. Look at the guys he's beaten:

Rashad Evans --future HOFer, and in his prime
Rampage --future HOFer, in the best shape of his life
Lyoto Machida --future HOFer
Shogun Rua --future HOFer, maybe not at peak but near, and he had the belt
Vitor Belfort ---future HOFer, not at his peak but close
Daniel Cormier-- Was ready for a title shot at HW, before going down to 205 to fight Jones, and would be a Top 3 HW if he stayed


#16

Weight class exist for a reason so any time you beat a guy who is a weight class below without actually going to HIS class its more of a stain. I think Silva is over rated badly but I think you have to look at who he lost to and his wins in a bubble. Beating Franklin then meant more than if he beat him now...... Same time that's why win lose doesn't matter a whole lot to me its about controlling someone and doing what you want to them. Jones isn't the greatest and nor will he be until he goes up to heavy and fights with success their he doesn't have to win the title to pass a spider or GSP or anyone ahead of him. His wins with the exception of Gus and Cormier have come against old men and middleweights.


#17

I think this shows the UFC, if not by choice, by circumstance, is ready to slaughter its sacred money cows, we will start to see a LOT more positive drug tests, assuming athletes dont hop on new type of drug train. Traditionally in athletics you wouldve seen a big name like Silva have his drug tests swept under the desk, but that this came out suggests some of the corruption is in anti-doping is being eliminated, or I guess that the UFC is done with Silva.

But we've also had a slew of big names being caught out when presumably they've been using for most of their careers. And the recent speculation around Jon Jones unexplained LOW testosterone levels (an otherwise extremely healthy appearing and functioning athlete, displaying no symptoms of hormone deficiency, with levels less than the average woman) and victor conte's insistence that he should be flagged.

I really wouldn't be surprised to find out most of the big names aren't clean. Frankly I operate from the assumption that almost every fighter in the UFC is on something. I know looks can be deceiving and all, but frankly, nutritional science and training hasn't REALLY advanced that much, the condition some fighters show up in puts amateur bodybuilders to shame. Even Tyson at his peak physical condition with all his genetic gifts looked soft compared to some of the ridiculous powerhouses in the MW and LHW division.


#18

let me join the merry croon

1) GOAT
Arnold is numero uno in bodybuilding, hands down!
Roger Moore is the best Bond, shut up, peasants!
Fedor is the Goat of MMA, bleeh!
other capraic contenders are GSP, Anderson, perhaps Saku, maaaybe BJ
Cain, ironically, while enjoying the best cardio, hasn't had the knees for a proper run as a champ.

Jon Jones will be up there, but the claim is weakened by his sheer physicality. He pretty much dwarfes every fighter he was up against.
Back in Pride, Fedor's gut dwarfed every other fighter except Roy's, and he was always going for the finish and getting it, too.

2) "every-generation-gets-better" shit needs to get choked to death
Because just no.
A prime goat would be able to give every man on the planet a good siberian lickin.
We're not talking about the Royce and Ken era, MMA is, in spite of being the most complex sport also the most straightforward.
You can work ten years on your Rubber Guard Ellbow GNP Reversal Counter-Counter, and you might win a fight with it, but chances are, someone knocks your dick off with a sloppy right swing beforehand.

Basics work best in a sport with minimal rules.

And while there are a few things a modern MMA fighter is way ahead of (mostly cagegame, but also some transitions, point strategies, some minor training related shit and a bit of the striking stuff) , he's not in better shape or has better hands, wrestling or submissions.
The thing is, some evolutionary wars were already done FOR MMA in their respective styles.
Kicking, boxing, wrestling, BJJ; all the techniques ARE ALREADY developed on a fantastically high level.

You can STILL win with a very small set of moves. Basic Moves.
That will not ever change under simliar rules.

This guy can be a champ:
Ex Judoka, with all kinds of hip throws and good scrambles. Strong counter cross, good left hook. Has a kneegame-That's it.
This guy can also be champ: Thaibrawler, great sprawl, great defensive wrestling. Exiting as fuck when throwing shin & leather, boring as fuck when tied up standing or on the ground.

Of course, then there's the chemical arguement, namely...

3) Steroids!
While they inject confusion into the discussion, proper roiding DOES make a fighter simply harder, faster, tougher, stronger.
And on one hand there is great advantage in getting better MMA-focused designer steroids for the next gen, it seems on the other hand that maaaybe they do come down hard on juicers these days(seriously, Fitch?).
If that is the case, Pride era heavies would smash tomorrow's clean heavies.

There's an Arya Stark joke in there but I'm too tired with this long post and nobody gives a shit anyway...


#19

Rejoice, Cain is rehabbing his knee under the stern eyes of brofessionals!


#20

Damn those were some hardcore ....leg extensions. I am so shocked Diaz failed a drug test!!