Wow. Bill Roberts is one amazing source of info. You should feel honored he responded on your thread.
But… I will dare disagree with his statement of “if using trenbolone why use Equipoise. No point.”
This summer I did a 300mg TestE + 240mg TrenE + 400mg EQ cycle. I got all the positives of Tren like appetite suppression(I was cutting), vascularity, and blablabla.
And by adding the EQ, I had NO loss of stamina at all. In fact I gained some! I train in MMA, not really in BB, so I was quite surprised and pleased. Tren doesn’t have to be the endurance killer - if you add some EQ!
I know some BB/powerlifters will add EQ to a Tren cycle to gain back some appetite for bulking cycles. It didn’t go like that for me though. But since I was cutting I didn’t mind at all.
I never had personally experienced trenbolone reducing stamina at all – quite the opposite really personally – nor has anyone I’ve planned cycles for complained of it. Let alone of being an “endurance killer.” However, I don’t train MMA and it’s possible results could vary according to the differing demands on the body.
While granting that it could be exactly as it has seemed to you due to the differing situation, it may be worth pointing out that what you experienced may be exactly what happened, but given that apparently you were using “trenbolone enanthate” you may not have been dealing with trenbolone at all, or may have been dealing with an unknown dose different from what you expected, or perhaps an odd unknown mixture. I don’t think trenbolone enanthate (or material sold as such) is a reliable product in all instances.
There’s also a dosage issue.
240 mg/week tren-E (if tren-E) corresponds, due to heavier molecular weight of the ester, to less than 27 mg/day of trenbolone acetate. This is an inadequate amount of trenbolone.
I should have been clearer with regards to statements regarding whether there’s a point to adding Steroid B to Steroid A or not. I was referring to cases where the dose of Steroid A is already what it should be.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Thanks for the kind words, SwD.[/quote]
You certainly are one of the most respected guys I’ve witnessed on any board. Your inputs are always welcomed.
Really? I’ve read many times on this board that it kills endurance. But I’ve not experienced this either.
It’s quite possible, since it is UGL stuff. But all the effets, good and bad, are on cue with was is exepected of Tren: appetite suppresion, vascularity, (AMAZING!)recuperation, slight insomnia, a bit of aggression, … and smaller balls (only Tren does that to this extent in my case - well if it is Tren).
Going off what I think was TrenE 3 weeks before the end of the cycle made me feel like I was off already. So yeah, I’m not sure 100%, but going from what I know of Tren, I’d say there is Tren in there. I didn’t get night sweats that I got with TrenA though, and while I never could deal with TrenA for more than 4 weeks, I went 7 weeks with TrenE and could have gone longer.
So there is doubt, but again, it “felt” like Tren going by what Tren is known to do. And my recuparation really went downhill when I stopped the TrenE yet was still on other stuff for 3 weeks.
I read in many places that in the “old days” BB used similar amounts and not the huge dose as common today. Also it was stacked with other gear.
And mostly I think I got this cue for you that we can “count” Tren mg as 3 times as powerful. So basically 240mg of Tren is the equivalent of 720mg of other gear like Test. Hey I could wrong, it’s been a while, but I think I got that from you.
Thanks for your feedback and feel free to respond to this. It’s an hijack from the original post but I think many will agree that it’s most informative when you come in with your knowledge!
On your bumping this, I saw an interesting point SwD raised that I had not seen at the time.
Namely, the statement of trenbolone acetate having 3x the potency of testosterone propionate.
That figure comes from the veterinary literature, and also from me as that is where I had gotten it from and it seems to me that from the practical standpoint it is a useful figure as well. (Unlike most anabolic index numbers, which in no way seem to correspond to practice.)
But, there is a big but: That is in reference to androgen-receptor-mediated activity only.
Trenbolone needs to be stacked with a Class II for good results, to cover non-androgen-receptor-mediated activity.
The example above of 240 mg trenbolone enanthate per week would correspond to, looking at where I had calculated it above, less than 27 mg/day of the acetate, and so to about but less than 81 mg/day of testosterone propionate. Or somewhere around 550 mg/week total or so.
I would expect that amount of TP to beat that amount of trenbolone, on that comparison, because the trenbolone is being used in a way where it doesn’t work very well: alone.
But if the comparison was to 27 mg/day trenbolone acetate being added to say 50 mg/day Dianabol, or say 80 mg/day TP being added to that amount of Dianabol, the trenbolone would do at least as well IMO.
So that is the sense in which the 3x comparison can be used and come to a reasonable conclusion, I think. But not as a standalone. There, it is beaten by standalone testosterone.