T Nation

Anastrozole Overresponder

I was hoping to get some insight to this question regarding the use of AI while on TRT. I have been on TRT for almost 5 years, and I’ve always had a difficult time finding the correct AI dose. It seems that no matter what my T dose is, my AI dose is always wrong. To give you an example, I currently dose T Cyp E3D at 70 mg or 175 mg weekly, which is a fairly high T dose if I’m not mistaken. I was thinking that at this level I could tolerate a higher AI dose, but it turns out that .20 mg Anastrozole x2 weekly is still to high. Shortly after I take it I get super soft and my libido is out the window.
I’ve actually gone to the extent of purchasing a gram scale so I can crush the 1 mg tablet and weight it so I can get dosing down to .10 mg which is almost zero, you can barely see the AI power that on the scale.
As you can see I don’t need much of an AI, and your first thought might be to just drop the AI completely, which I did and I became symptomatic. (High E2)

So I got to thinking, if I lowered my body fat index which in turn would lower my aromatase enzymes count would I get a better E2 level and I could drop AI all together? I only ask since I’ve been all over the board with various T and AI dosing. In fact, for years now I’ve kept a daily log of my actual AI blood level calculating the two day half life rolling day after day vs. my dosing. Currently I’m at 24.4 Anastrozole blood level and that’s to high for me.
Just for the record over the past five years all blood work has been very good, except of E2 which has been mostly low but on a few occasions high over 60.

To sum up, I’m was trying to get some insight on how to get off AI completely or a better way to dose AI since what I’m doing isn’t really working, that well. Frankly, I thought the mg scale was going to solve my problems, but not yet. Do you think the idea about lowering body fat is an effective approach? Presently, I have about a 39 inch waste (I can pinch an inch or so) and 185 5’9in age 63 and I’m a regular at the gym, not a gym rat, but 3-4 times a week 45 minutes a day cardio and weight training.
Please share you thoughts

Thanks!

How long were you symptomatic? It Will take a couple months for your body to adjust. My nipples could cut glass and bring me to my knees if rubbed by my harness at work for like 2 months when starting TRT. Water weight eventually went down a little bit. I was at just under 50 my last labs and raised my dose 13.2% and switched to ED so i would imagine it may climb a little bit maybe stay the same.

HEllo
This is a dosing problem that has been ongoing for about 5 years. Mostly I’m to low on E2 inspite of lowering my dose regularly.

Have you tried no AI… just test?

You are too low because of the A.I. stop taking it and you will be good once your body adjusts

I understand. However, I think I mentioned in paragraph 2 how in the past when I went to zero AI I became symptomatic, from high E2. Are you suggesting that I just leave things alone, and rely on my body to make the appropriate adjustment? If so, how long would someone wait to see the balancing to take effect? Have you tried this personally?

Thanks

Yes. I mentioned that in paragraph 2.

Interesting. I"ve been hearing, lately that some guys are letting their E2 just run without an AI, and eventually the body supposedly balances things out. Have you heard about this and if so do you think it has any merit?

So far i have found that if i leave things alone i can still feel slightly high e2. Maybe i need to wait it out even longer.

Hey GS, do you have you discovered any sure signs that you are high or low on E2 based on your body’s response? As you know most of the signs are the same for high and low so I was wondering if you picked up on a physical response to help determine direction of your E2?.

Yes you need to wait out thw high e symptoms for a month maybe a little more. They will eventually fo away

My e is over 50 and i feel fine. When i treat e my joints hurt

Wow, a month. When my E2 gets to high for to long, I taking a leak can get a little challenging and once I hit the AI all is well. Do you know if your E2 score is .03 of you total T?

I was at like 700 TT and 50 E

I’ll never be able to take AI’s, even 1/4 of a 0.050 is too much AI, there are men that just cannot touch the stuff. A 1/20th tablet aromasin is gentler on my symptom and takes longer to work.

So have you just stopped AI all together, if so what T dose are you taking? I’m thinking I’m going to just “power” through the AI high sides until I naturally balance out. I guess it can take about 4-8 weeks, at least that is what guys are doing here.

I have been on TRT for about 5 years, and during that time I don’t think I ever really dialed in my AI, for a long period of time. I believe I’m an over responder, and recently I’ve been hearing more about TRT guys, completely getting off their AI, which is what I’m considering doing. I’m interested in knowing what the “no AI experience” is like, regarding the side effects, particularly if your like me at the higher doses of T. My dose is 70 mg E3D or 175 mg weekly.

I’m concerned about the potential for prostate problems letting E2 run up. I know that BPH is directly related to high E2, although some still believe it’s all about DHT. Additionally, there are very strong links to prostate cancer, with regard to high E2. Then there are the lesser concerns constipation, and acne and so on.
Do you just ignore these symptoms, and “push” through or are those guys just fortunate enough not to struggle with noteworthy sides?
Lastly, does the need for an AI get reduced as you lower your body fat index, in other words if you get ripped, would you eliminate the need for an AI?

Thanks for you responses.

Could you post your most recent blood work? While you will find that there is strong debate concerning E2 and whether or not it should be controlled, if you sift through the fanatical side-taking bull shit you’ll find that most guys that are having issues with higher E2 are having issues because they are trying to push their TRT too high, or are still too far out of shape.

If Free T is in line and not too high or low, your body will self regulate E2 providing you have proper nutrition and a healthy BF%. I am not totally against an AI if someone is just starting TRT and are in the process of cleaning up their life, or even for helping with the adjustment phase when starting a new protocol, but ideally one would want to address nutrition and body fat, optimizing testosterone levels, and then let E2 fall in line wherever your body regulates it to.

There are circumstances where the body doesn’t regulate properly on its own even when nutrition and BF% is in line. In those cases, more attention needs to be given to finding the root cause of that. Look into thyroid and other deficiencies.

Anyway, that’s just my .02 cents

I’m starting to think there’s more merit to this than using an AI as well. I haven’t been able to ever dial one in for myself either. Maybe lowering the dose until estrogen stabilizes is a better long term solution, and if it feel the need to push higher for performance enhancing maybe you’re better off using a different compound that doesn’t aromatize short term.

While I’m not against a “blast and cruise” mentality, I firmly believe that one should have the “cruise” portion of that down to a personal science, having health, nutrition, and TRT completely dialed in before a “blast” should ever even be considered.