T Nation

Anadrol/Winstrol... Impossible to Keep Gains?

It depends on the time frame in which you’ll be evaluating results.

Before getting to that, while it’s the case that PCT is not “needed” with a single two week cycle or for that matter “needed” with ongoing 2 on / 4 off, it’s still a great idea because the faster you recover natural T production the better,

And frankly it’s nice to have weeks of supranormal LH to make up for the weeks of suppressed LH thus resulting in testicle size always staying at least the usual or tending to average larger than baseline.

Rather than being suppressed two weeks out of every six or whatever, with no increase above baseline on the off weeks, which means on average having less LH than usual.

Anyway, back to the results question.

If your evaluation is which will have the best results for you 6 weeks from now and you compare 2 on / 4 off with 6 on / 12 off (for example) then the second of course wins.

If your comparison is say 2 on / 2 off six weeks from now, versus 6 on / 6 off six weeks from now, the comparison is a whole lot closer.

If your comparison is 2 on / 2x off (where x is some factor) vs 6 on / 6x off (where x is that same factor) and you’re evaluating one year from now, the first will do at least as well and likely better, and also will not have as extended “aw crap nothing is happening” periods.

(Why do I say “likely better” even after all these years? Because lacking identical twins it’s impossible to say what “would” have happened for a given individual doing things the other way. One can only look at results of numbers of people that have tried differing ways and hope that chance did not load one group up with high responders and the other with low responders.)

Also when the goal is some specific time point a good ways off, say a year from now or 9 months or what have you, a great approach is to go with say 2 on / 2 off for the great bulk of it and then to finish off with for example 8 weeks straight or 10 straight or what have you,

Or if more aggressive yet it is acceptable to, say, 19 weeks before the date in question do 8 on / 3 off / 8 on, assuming (as is generally the case) that natural T production was back well before the 3 week point.

Also in how to interpret this, I count cycle length according to how long levels are suppressive. I don’t mean where the last injection was on the last day of week 8 let alone where it was of a long-acting ester.

That is then more than an 8 week cycle: it might be 10 week cycle in terms of what I mean here (and generally) though I know this is not the common method of counting.

This does not mean the end cannot or should not be supplemented with short acting injectables and finally more orals so as to keep levels high right up to only a few days before the end point.

Thanks, Bill. That information is greatly appreciated. I’m going to more thoroughly research the compounds you proposed and decide which of the two to go with. Avoiding the “aw crap nothing is happening” phase is definitely a plus ;o)

I was also considering trying some clen somewhere around springtime to really lean out as much as possible for the summer. If I chose to go that route would it be best to incorporate it during a cycle or on the off weeks?

In man clenbuterol either does nothing or next to nothing for muscle mass, so the only point would be when cutting.

Of course cutting with anabolic steroids works better than cutting without, but whether the improvement from clenbuterol is moreso, less so, or the same between those two situations, I don’t know.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
In man clenbuterol either does nothing or next to nothing for muscle mass, so the only point would be when cutting.

Of course cutting with anabolic steroids works better than cutting without, but whether the improvement from clenbuterol is moreso, less so, or the same between those two situations, I don’t know.[/quote]

Ive found clen/albuterol fairly effective for cutting.

Of course diet is the key factor, but clen does make it easier, it does seem to work decently as an appetite suppressant as well as a thermogenic.

It is worth noting that clen seems dramatically more effective when used in conjunction with cardio/weights/diet rather than just weights and diet.

This is obvious, but the results are more dramatic than youd expect, cardio is essential if your using clen.

I highly recommend always using AAS or atleast prohormones, or something in conjunction with clen for cutting.

In my experience cutting with only clen makes you lose muscle as well as fat more quickly.

No where near the rate of T3 and such, but it always works better with if your use AAS with it, and it buys you some serious piece of mind.

Thanks for the info guys. I have to research these compounds further but at least I’ve been pointed in the right direction :slight_smile: