T Nation

Anadrol and Gyno (Again)

I’m considering the merits of a Anadrol and Var 2 week cycle with a low dose Dbol for estro. I’ve read Bill’s Anadrol profile over at Meso with a key concern being the potential for gyno (with or without aromatizing compounds) due to progesterone or prolactin?

I found this post by Anthony Roberts which suggests their is no gyno without estrogen, but this was posted a few years ago and I’m interested to see if a consensus has been reached on the subject.

"A cursory knowledge of anadrol would tell these reliable peeps that since anadrol is derived from DHT (as is winstrol), it would likely have the same progesterone inhibiting ability as the winstrol would. In numerous studies, we see anadrol inhibiting progeserone biosynthesis in women.

Here’s one, if you want to look it up:

Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1975 Jan 1;121(1):121-6.

As for the idea that letrozole won’t help gyno “caused” by progesterone(or that AI’s won’t help that kind), that’s bullshit. The basic biology of breast cancer and breast tumors (which is what gyno is…a benign breast tumor) indicates that estrogen contributes to its development, and that it is essentially estrogen dependant. Nearly all existing mammary tumor models in most species confirm this. Human models, animal studies, in vitro, in vkivo…you name it…it’s estrogen, not progesterone. Estrogen grows the gyno, not progesterone. Concerning progesterone, actually, In some studies it actually has an inhibiting effect on breast cancer growth and tumor development.

Reference:
Harris JR, Lippman ME, Morrow M, Osborne CK, editors. Diseases of the breast. 2nd ed. Philadelphia: Lippincott, Williams & Wilkins; 2000. p. 335-54.

Ergo, there is no real “progesterone” gyno, and AIs will work for gyno of any kind.

Letrozole actually reduces progesterone levels in the body, if you are interested. Sooo…even if there were progesterone gyno (ha ha), letro would get rid of it.

Thanks in advance

LR

I am sure I didn’t say in that write-up that there is or should be a key concern for gyno with Anadrol in the absence of aromatizing compounds. Quite the opposite: I said the concern was in the presence of high estrogen.

LMAO!!! Nice choice for an avatar Bill…

Anyway, based off what I’ve read, it’s really unknown what causes the gyno from drol; some think that the drol itself actually directly binds and causes the estrogenic side effects.

I’ve been getting ready to do a test/drol cycle myself and will be using an AI to combat the synergy of the test with the drol and will keep some nolva on hand in case I need it throughout the cycle too. The nolva should compete for the binding sites with the drol and keep its side effects down, in theory at least.

So maybe consider running it with nolva and an AI (aromasin).

Aside from that, I strongly suggest you do some more research into cycling. A 2 week cycle of 3 orals? Wtf? It sounds like you have no idea what you’re doing…

Apologies for the confusion Bill. I should have noted that it was a key concern for me personally that there was some uncertainty about the cause of ‘anadrol gyno’ and associated remedial strategies.

I suppose the real intent of my question was to find out whether you (or anybody else) agreed with Anthony’s advice, as it was posted some time ago?

Indiana…the 2 week cycle will be one in a series. I’ve done the research and IMO these compounds will work well together.

Thanks for taking the time however.

Well, I would rather leave the entirety of his statements alone.

I don’t think Anadrol is a problem for gyno where estrogen levels are not elevated. Which they would not be in your proposed cycle, assuming that by low-dose Dianabol you mean for example 5 mg 2x/day. (Not that I have an exact figure for that.)

No problem, i can understand how these responses may be taken out of context.

And yes, that was the Dbol dose i had in mind.

Perhaps i should pose the question in a different way (sorry to press).

In the unlikely event that symptoms did arise, would you consider either a SERM or AI to be the appropriate remedy?

For anybody who may be interested…this is advice from some other chap on a different forum (i don’t have the understanding to critically scrutinize any of this advice however);

For Prolactin Control -

bromocriptine & dostinex (cabergoline) - these 2 drugs do not directly modify estrogen or progesterone regulation. These drugs are dopamine agonists that mimic the effects of dopamine in the brain by stimulating dopamine receptors. This increased stimulation of dopamine receptors, as I wrote above, will have a direct impact on prolactin levels - it will cause a marked decrease in prolactin secretion from the pituitary.

For Progesterone -

RU486/mifepristone - now this drug effects progesterone related side effects. The drug anti-progestational activity results from competitive interaction with progesterone at progesterone-receptor sites, and as a result the compound inhibits the activity of endogenous or exogenous progesterone.

Hope this helps

Regards

LR

[quote]LR wrote:
No problem, i can understand how these responses may be taken out of context.

And yes, that was the Dbol dose i had in mind.

Perhaps i should pose the question in a different way (sorry to press).

In the unlikely event that symptoms did arise, would you consider either a SERM or AI to be the appropriate remedy?
[/quote]

Yes.

Worth keeping cabergoline / mifepristone in the arsenal for compounds where it might not be clear what is causing the gyno?

A value might be that there can be a prosexual benefit to cabergoline or pramipexole even when prolactin is not elevated; also prolactin can be elevated for causes other than anabolic steroids.

Mifepristone I would not bother with when using any anabolic steroid that I would use. If someone were determined to use something such as THG then perhaps it could be of use.