T Nation

Anabolics and Muscle Memory


#1

I have a hypothetical,im hoping some of the enlightened here could probably answer it for me.If one was to do a cycle and gain a fair amount of new size(optimumly LBM)then even if one regressed a fair deal post cycle would it not be easier to hit a higher setpoint than prior to the cycle.

i was wondering if the "muscle memory"or any potential changes to the muscle fibres would allow for being "further along",so to speak.i remember back in the MM 2Kdays when they were featuring very well developed natural bb,tho nearly all of them had admitted some prior anabolic usage....


#2

yes, muscle memory would help you get to that size again. But it would take some time to get back to that point because of low endogenous test levels.


#3

Believe muscle memory would allow for retention of the same muscle stage, it would just take time.

AG-Guys


#4

Is that with or without more steroids or androgens ?


#5

Brilliant question my young friend.

With steroids as long as you arn't too far away from the setpoint - i.e. if your post cycle has gone well and you have kept a lot of gains, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a return to your previous best size within 10 days of begining the cycle. After that, any other gains would be new.

Without steroids the progress would be slow, and if you were above your natural 'sealing' it would be probably imposible.


#6

Training and diet can yield the results you wish. Steroids are not always the answer.

AG-Guys


#7

Well what I mean is , When I was doing MAG-10 and 1 ad or methyl 1T cycles I got up to 245 lb's . Now I've been off for a year or so and down to 215 . I am eating ALOT less and not training as hard .

If I wanted to lift xtra heavy and eat more how close to that 245-250 could I expect to get without prohormones and without getting fat ?

Say in 6 months to a year .


#8

I got up in the 230's at a low teens bodyfat % naturally. After a few cycles I have gotten in the 250's at an even lower bodyfat. I often wonder even with excellent diet and training how much of this is possible to keep.

The only friends I have seen keep an enourmous amount of "extra" muscle after completely coming off are ones that used GH. There entire body composition changed. Of course I have yet to see anyone I know who had the discipline to continue training and eating the right way, if they ever knew what the right way was. You have to reach your peak without drugs first to find sucess once you come off.


#9

After you use AS there's a significant ammount of muscle you will keep permanently. Years later you may be natural but you'll still have a level of development that hardly anyone will reach if they were a true lifetime natural.

Back in the good old MM2K days i always called BS on their bodybuilders because they originally built their bodies with AS then became natural and used good trainng, diet and supplements to fill out again. And they did, quite nicely i must point out.

I started training @ 185, in there years i was @ 280, 15%. now 7 years later i can easily be 235 @ 10%. So i never really need to use AS again. I'm Happy.


#10

Damn good question, and great answers everyone. I was wondering the same thing as a guy I know that took steroids a long while back still looks awesome, not quite as big but still bigger than he was before. His muscles just look more developed now, and they seem to pump alot easier.

I'm thinking I'm about at about my natural limit, though I'm almost positive I don't want to inject anything. I don't really care if I'm natural anymore as I've been lifting for about 10 years with minimal breaks, and I'm still not close to what I would like to look like. But then to tax the body and not make any money off it I'm not sure if its worth it. I feel no need to do contests, I've just liked the look of S.Ray, L.Priest, and those guys all my life it seems.

So I'm not sure what to do as of yet. Are there any decent oral steroids that don't hurt your liver too bad?!! I know that Anavar is oral but doesn't sound that strong, then I've seen alittle on Andriol that doesn't sound too bad. I also know a guy that still sells 1-ad that I really responded well to, but only got to try one bottle before the ban and haven't contacted him yet. He must have it stock piled or something. So as you can probably tell I'm on the fence about it. Any suggestions?


#11

While I cannot comment on the fat gains, you can retain a lot of gains with hard training and diet.

AG-Guys


#12

Well I already retained 1/2 gains now if I want to try and get back the other 1/2 how close do you think I could come without prohormones . I know the super strength I had will not fully come back but I think the size might be a diffrent story ? I think another lean 15 pounds is not out of the question .