T Nation

Anabolic Diet


Looks like in the past there was a ton of discussion on the anabolic diet. Looks like nothing has really been posted on it in about 2 years. Im wondering if it was just kind of a fad and now fizelled out. Any of you guys out there still doing AD? If so Im wondering if on carb up days its wise to eat at TDEE or does it not matter?


Its basically the kals you burn in a day. Its based on activity, age, sex, height.. Theres tons of calculators for it on the net..
Yeah I checked out the old forums in search of some of my answers but no luck. I even got the book and Im still lost a bit maybe you might know.

When counting carbs do you subtract fiber from it? Or do you just go off the labels "total carb" and add that up


I used the AD for over 8 month continuously. I think the original book is obsolete simply due to the lack of vegetables and the absurd source of fats recommended ( sausages, fatty meat, beef jerky ect). In his second book he has a better&healthier list of foods and he also allows you to change your daily intake of carbs depending on your needs.

Here is how my diet looked like
Weekdays: 40% protein 55-60 fat and 50-100 grams of carbs a day with most of it coming post workout even tho the doc advise to take ur carbs before workout rather than after and take fatty whip cream along with your protein shake after!!!
weekends: carbs 60-70% fat 20-30 % protein lowwww
My main goals were body recomp, I did not want to cut. I started at 205 and ended up at a much leaner 200.

You will easily lose weight at first mostly because it is hard to eat the same amount of calories without carbs and also loss of water retention.

_You can peak 2-3 days after your carb up. For me it was Wedneday and I destroyed a lot of PRs on that day.
_No muscle loss and maintained strength

_The weekends were HELL. Lethargic feeling. Not good if you workout on weekends (in fact you are not supposed to). Hard to eat clean sources of carbs without protein. the weekends were supposed to be a relaxing everything goes days. But for the diet to work you need to ingest LARGE amounts of clean carbs.
_Almonds and nuts are prohibited because they contain carbs. You cannot eat fruits daily which is NOT healthy

Overall I feel it is an outdated diet. I feel if you start with Paleo diet and adjust carbs (cycling) as needed then you will be more pleased with both short and long terms results.


I've been doing paleo about 4 months its been very good. I've been shatering goals since I started it. Going from Paleo to AD was not a hard transition. In my 1st 2 weeks at 30g of carbs I really shed some weight. In general I was eating about 100g of carbs daily anyhow.. So it wasnt all that drastic. The carb ups do seem to help but do kind of leave me feeling tierd for about 3 days.. My last carb up was crappy lots of garbage carbs though.. I'll try better carbs next time.
Why did you stop AD?
Is Creatine cool on Ad or not?


Good to see you here thehebrewhero :smiley:


See the problem is on the weekend...the only carbs I feel like eating are pizza, candies, and bread. It is very hard for me to eat 3-4 sweet potatoes, brown rice/ quinoa, oatmeal through the day. The diet seems to encourage cheat meals but trust me keep your carb up cleans or else you will stagnate on this diet. I stopped using because it simply did not match my eating habits ( I need fruits every day) and workout schedule ( I workout on weekends). carb cycling is much more flexible.
I see no reason to stop using creatine. I always use it peri workout


Hey whats up :slightly_smiling: Hows your carbing going? I ate a bunch of crap like pancakes and fastfood.. I think multi grain or whole grain pastas might be the way to get the most out of the weekend carb ups. Otherwise you will be eating a troth full of vegies all day.


MODOK, if you don't mind my asking a quick question about the Anabolic diet--I've been eating extremely low carb for a long time now (basically the way the AD dictates on weekdays all the time). I'm gaining in the gym and hitting the weights hard every day, and I don't feel flat in any way (at least that I notice...but I've been doing quite low carb for long enough that maybe I really do just not notice). That said, I've been thinking about doing a "forced AD" on myself with regard to the carb days. In other words, I'll basically just make myself eat the carb loads on weekends.

I suppose my question is this: I was never really clear as to whether people on the AD did the carb refeeds because their bodies were used to carbs as a source of energy or whether it was for actual physiological reasons beyond that. Sure, most seemed to do it willingly as they were used to taking in carbs, but for someone who is used to going without much in the way of carbs (less than 50g/day), would you suggest doing the carb-up weekends even if I don't necessarily desire eating carbs? Ultimately, I want gains in the gym and results in my physique, so if you think that the carb loads would help in that, I'll give it a try.

I'm also trying to think of when I might start actually doing this. I just started ramp 2 of BBB (ha, just finished day two of hitting "endurance" thighs...so I feel like hell), and part of me doesn't want to screw with my nutrition during the ramp, as I feel like the frequency in Ramp 2 is about all my body can take in the way of changes :). Maybe I'll start during the next SG phase.



Trendy ? If I had stayed a month or two before jumping ship I would understand. I was not planning to make this a lifetime diet I am sorry if that makes me a trendy dieter lol. I do think fruits and nuts are mandatory for a healthy lifestyle...I am sorry I don't have a research paper to prove this but I am gauging this from my body's response.

I know nuts are not restricted but if your read the original book he mostly recommends processed meat which as you pointed is full of cancer causing nitrates! If you are using 30-50 grams of carbs around your workout then you dont have enough for nuts. Of course I did add nuts but I am just pointing out that dr.di didn't seem big on them. I know saturated fats are what make the diet work. I did not omit them.

Let me make one thing clear...I did not eat junk on weekends. I never said that. I said it is easy to misinterpret sat/sun carb up and make it a cheat day...in fact dr.Di himself gave the green lights to cheating on weekends which can be disastrous when applied. Again stop reading between the lines. Regardless of carb sources I felt lethargic because of I am not used to eating low amount of protein. It was nothing serious but it did prevent me from having an intense workout on weekends (something he also advises against).

From Saturday 9:00 am until Sunday 3:00 pm my carb up consisted of oatmeal, brown rice,sweet potatoes and avocados...did I cheat sometimes ?? Definitely! But that's exactly what Dr.Di was encouraging.

I am glad it is working for you, I definitely got favorable results using it(like I said before) BUT I don't think it is maintainable without MAJOR adjustments. I have read both books published. I would be worried if someone followed teh first book to the T. In the second book Dr.di allows you to be a lot more flexible with the diet (he allows up to 200g of carbs per day depending on your tolerance and also include a small carb up mid-week)) but in my opinion you can still adhere to most of dr.Di Pasquale principles while using carb cycling.

ps about antioxidants in fruits ??


As far as workouts goes whats the best way to take advantage of AD? Right now I do full body M&W, Hard cardio T & TH and Friday max power upperbody, SA Max power lower body... Im thinking about reversing my program to make the most of the weekend carbs..

Hey Modok.. Since saturated fats is good and nitrates are bad does that mean I should nix bacon? Its tasty and a good source of fat..Im not sure what Ron read but in Dr Di's book I dont remember much about Prosessed meats. It mostly said eat as much faty red meat as possible. For reasons of good fat high protien. With this diet theres not much room for lean meats or low protien stuff..

Its 2 days after my 1st carb up and I feel pretty rock hard..I think this diet gives a good pump the ketosis durring the week probably is what sheds the fat..I think Dr Di says eat what you want but Im sure the diet would be optimized if carbs were clean as opposed to Micky D's


also note that carbs play a big role in T4 to T3 conversion which, if T3 is lowered, can in turn lower testosterone


Ill look up what ABCA3 is... Im not necissarily a BB Im just trying to get strong & lean.. I've heard of Bodyopus.. I have no problem with Bacon.. I was worried about the bacon nitrates for long term health.. You ever hear of anyone haveing long term effects from AD like heart attaks or strokes due to the high fat & choleterol..I didnt really see much on the net other than the regular low fat high carb shit that chicks are into..



Do you think someone can utilize the AD style of eating, while still taking advantage of peri-WO carbs on weekdays? Would something like 60-100g carbs during workouts make the weekend carb-ups useless? I was thinking having workout carbs and then maybe just 1 day a week for a carb up.



I'm no expert, but I did something like this. I would eat around 60-90g CHO a day (most coming in peri-w/o), and instead of a weekend junk-fest I'd have a half day or 2 meal junk fest. I don't think you'll ever be truly depleted if you're taking in that amount of carbs. And on the weekends, I'd always make sure to get some starchy carbs in w/ the junk to refill muscle glycogen (even though muscle glycogen can NOT be completely depleted).

Are you still thinking about bulking or are you trying to "maintain?" I put maintain in quotes b/c for us young dudes, maintenance seems like some bullshit. You're bigger than me, but still, neither of us is huge. I feel like once you get huge you can 'afford' to maintain b/c you've already built your base, knowmsayin? But either way...when I did it the way you said, I got good workouts, when I did 100% AD, workouts suffered....


I'm wasting time on T-Nation while in class in med school. We are discussing a patient with polycystic ovarian syndrome and discussing why a low carb diet may be advised. I threw in this piece of info and hypothesized how a low carb diet would thus decrease the circulating androgens in the patient's body. I looked smart and I was just chillin on this site. Thanks!


I cant find anything on "ABCA 3 way training" What is it? I'll look for the book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and see whats up..I don't really see why so many people complain about the carbs I enjoy my high fat days more then the high carb days. I dont feel gassed and I do 2 training sessions on M-W-F one of which is a high intensity circuit training routine. No problems... I think it may take some people more time then 2 weeks to shed dependency on carbs...


3 way split, 4 times per week.

mon: routine A
tues: routine B
wed: rest
thurs: routince C
fri: routine A
sat: rest
sun: rest

so the next week starts with routine B on monday.

or something like that, not necessarily those exact days. The idea is you're doing a different routine every monday so each bodypart gets chance to take advantage of the refeed.

I've never done the AD, but that's my interpretation of what MODOK wrote.


x2 on Bodyopus. Bodyopus, The Ketogenic Diet, and Ultimate Diet 2.0 are required reading (in addition to The AD, of course) for those interested in cyclical ketogenic diets.

I'm feeling long-winded today, so here's my take on training with a CKD:

As far as training goes, you could also follow a simple 2 day split, 4 days per week. Program your workouts so that your heavy, low rep training occurs in the two days after the carb up and shift the nature of the second half of the week more towards higher TUT, more moderate loads, higher volume, and lactate accumulation. This way you are able to train he entire body each week during the optimized post-refeed period when you should be able to take advantage of glycogen supercompensation and lots of bloat (positive leverages). The higher volume lactate work is absolutely brutal, but will significantly deplete muscle glycogen and upregulate non-insulin mediated glycogen storage if done correctly. This should increase the "quality" and effectiveness of the carb-up.

Sunday- 45-60 minutes LISS to help re-establish ketosis
Monday- Heavy Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 3-5 sets of 3-6 reps between 80-90% 1rm per body part
Tuesday- Heavy Legs/Back- same loading as Monday
Wednesday- rest/LISS (goal dependent)
Thursday- Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 8-10 sets of 10-15 reps per body part. Set length should average out to about 45-60 seconds, so lighter loads and slow negatives. If the muscle isn't burning, you're not using enough weight or you're going too fast.
Friday- Legs/Back- same loading as Thursday.
Saturday- Refeed, no training

Just thinking "out loud".


i completely agree. i have been doing pretty much the above template for the last 6-8 weeks or so and recomping quite nicely


Whats LISS?

How would this look on AD

MON Max upper body & 30min cardio moderate to low impact
Tue Max lower body & 30min cardio moderate to low impact
Wed Hard cardio or bodyweight bootcamp style workout think PX90 or crossfit ( something extreme to deplete gycogen)
TH High rep low weight upperbody + 30min cardio
F High Rep low weight lower boddy + 30min cardio
SA & SU rest

Also do you think if trying to cut body fat just stay on the 30g of carbs per day untill BF goal is reached?
Any secrets to burning maximum body fat on AD?