T Nation

Anabolic Diet Questions/Concerns

I recently started the AD and yesterday was my first carb-up day. For a little background, In January, I weighed 270 with 39% BF. Through clean eating, lifting, and cardio, I have lost over 60 pounds and have reduced my BF to 29% - still a long way to go but I am getting there.

I started the AD two weeks ago. The reason I am trying AD is that I wanted to reduce my LBM loss. My current program has me losing at a ration of 70/30. I thought the 30% LBM was too much so therefore the reason for the change.

During the first 2 weeks of AD, I didn’t loose much on the scale - basically one pound. However, I did drop a full percent in BF. The tape measure also confirmed fat loss. Therefore, my overall satisfaction with AD at this point was fine.

Now for the disappointment. Yesterday was carb-up day. Here is what I had to eat. I started with something I hadn’t had in over 5 months - a sausage and egg biscuit with a hash brown. My second meal was a slice of whole-wheat reduced-fat cheese pizza (homemade).

For lunch I had a Primo 10 inch sub (ham, cheese, oil) and a individual bag of natural potato chips). I ate half of the sub for lunch and the other half for meal 4.

For dinner I had brown rice , avocado, a salmon sushi roll and 4 oz of sirloin. Watching the All-Star race with my daughter, we split a bag of light-butter microwave popcorn and I had one beer (another item I hadn’t had in over 5 months). All other liquid was of the non-calorie variety.

Now, I know that some of my choices were not good ones but from everything I read, it shouldn’t have matter that much. However, the scale shows I gained 4 pounds and 1.5% BF. I can’t freakin believe this! I didn’t even come close to consuming 14,000 calories. I highly doubt I even consumed 7000. I expected maybe a pound but four! What the hell!

What I would like to know is if this is normal? What is the weight actually from? I think it is physically impossible for me to gain 4 pounds of fat in 24 hours on what I ate.

Will this weight drop off quickly? I nixed the second day of carb-up as I can’t fathom gaining another 4 pounds. I have worked too damn hard to blow a month’s worth of effort in 2 days.

Should I drop the carb-ups. Maybe do a very strict carb up once a week. For example, steel-cut oats, sweet potatoes, navy beans, maybe whole-wheat pasta, and green veggies. This sucks! I had really hoped that I could enjoy a day of having a few items of pleasure once a week. So much for that.

Water, man, water.

Relax.

At your BF level you will see much better progress keeping the carb up clean and only one day a weekend though.

trust me, been there, done that.

Maybe do one cheat meal and the rest clean.

Carbs means you’re gonna gain water weight. I remember my weight fluctuating somewhere close to 8 pounds. It’ll come off by the 3rd day or so during the week. If you had read the book or the thread, that much should’ve been obvious.

Another thing, stop using your scale to measure bodyfat. If you’re lean enough, start getting skinfold tests, if not, just start keeping tape measurements. My scale says I’m at 24%bf, when I’m closer to 10.

If you want to preserve muscle mass, regardless of diet, eat your weight in protein (g), use post workout nutrition, and lift hard and heavy. Not all inclusive, but you’ll do pretty well with just that.

I gain around 10lbs on my refeeds. Two days later I’m back to normal.

Just to re-emphasize what has already been said, but keep the carb ups clean man. The sushi roll, sirloin, brown rice meal was the best you had that day.

And i’m guessing the first meal (sausage biscuit hasbrown one) was from a McDonalds or BK?

I’ve read many times over about how people screw up the carb ups because they eat whatever they want.

I’d stick with clean sources only, and maybe do only one day.

I’m no expert but this is what i’ve read in the AD thread and from a few other individuals’ experiences with this.

I carb-up clean for one day only and can still gain 2-8 lbs.

I’ll second GetSwole-

Relax.

In deference to the good doctor, you don’t need a carb up day at your level of leanness. Or level of not leanness. I am leaner than you are and I’ve found it hard to get leaner using even a one day carb up.

You need to make good choices (no trants fats, no blatant garbage, maybe a candy bar or Subway Sandwich) and stick to one two three meals for your carb up, then turn it off.

Also, make sure to eat a normal breakfast on your carb up day. I feel it makes a lot of difference.

Water weight will come and go, I wouldn’t worry about it.

[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Water, man, water.

Relax.

At your BF level you will see much better progress keeping the carb up clean and only one day a weekend though.

trust me, been there, done that.

Maybe do one cheat meal and the rest clean.[/quote]

Thanks. I will definetly do this next week. I guess I took a few too many liberties with my carb day.

[quote]Evilmage wrote:
Carbs means you’re gonna gain water weight. I remember my weight fluctuating somewhere close to 8 pounds. It’ll come off by the 3rd day or so during the week. If you had read the book or the thread, that much should’ve been obvious.

Another thing, stop using your scale to measure bodyfat. If you’re lean enough, start getting skinfold tests, if not, just start keeping tape measurements. My scale says I’m at 24%bf, when I’m closer to 10.

If you want to preserve muscle mass, regardless of diet, eat your weight in protein (g), use post workout nutrition, and lift hard and heavy. Not all inclusive, but you’ll do pretty well with just that.

[/quote]

Your comments are reassuring. I was hoping that the extra weight would come off quickly. I know I need to stop using the BF on my scale but I figured since I started with it that it might at least be a consistant measure of how I was doing. I didn’t really think it was accurate because the tape measure version says that I am 21% BF.

I really did read the book and I have read several 100 posts about AD on this site. Unfortunately, page 59 of the Anabolic Solution told me “When you get to the weekend, do what you want!” It did say some will overdo it but since it had been almost a half year since I had been bad (I have been very serious about this), I decided to let loose for what I thought was just a little - certainly I didn’t think I was pigging out.

I was in an all-day class on Saturday so I did the McDonalds thing (In my former fat days I would have had three of these) on the way there, some of the class members went to Primo’s for lunch so I joined them and had a half sub (would have been a whole one in the past) and saved the rest for another meal, and by dinner I was home and took better control over what I had to eat.

The book led me to believe I might gain a little on carb-ups but I guess I was shocked at the amount I gained and freaked out a little. Sounds like it isn’t that uncommon. I guess I don’t remember anyone on the site talking about such big weight gains on carb-ups but through all of those threads on AD I am sure somebody did mention it.

From what you say, it should be gone soon and next weekend I will approach it much differently.

Thanks again for the advice.

[quote]conorh wrote:
In deference to the good doctor, you don’t need a carb up day at your level of leanness. Or level of not leanness. I am leaner than you are and I’ve found it hard to get leaner using even a one day carb up. You need to make good choices (no trants fats, no blatant garbage, maybe a candy bar or Subway Sandwich) and stick to one two three meals for your carb up, then turn it off.

Also, make sure to eat a normal breakfast on your carb up day. I feel it makes a lot of difference.

Water weight will come and go, I wouldn’t worry about it.[/quote]

Your advice will be followed next weekend. Thanks.

No problem, hope you find it useful. I don’t know if you’ve been reading it, but you might want to check out the “My Experience on the Anabolic Diet” thread for some really great insight on the diet.

Oh, and as far as the weight gain goes, it’s possible to gain A LOT over a whole day carb up. I can come in as much as ten pounds heavier over a weekend carb up, depending on how crazy I go and how depleted I was to start out with.

im glad people have given the advice to keep it clean, i really dont agree with a 2 day all out carb binge or even the low carb days having tons of cream, sausage, etc…i think you’ll always be better off with the clean foods.

I’m not at all surprised with the weight gain but i am surprised it says u gained 1.5%BF, i guess it was just the scale being retarded like most bodyfat scales are lol.

for all those who say “you’ll be back to the weight by the 3rd day” dont u think thats a problem? i mean basically that leaves u with 2-3 days to make progress before ur carb loading again. i think it would make sense to keep it to 3 meals or so and maybe a full day for the more lean individuals.

also i’ve been reading about just keeping something like 50g of carbs around workouts (like a TKD) and none any other time instead of actual carb up days. the only issue with that is that it really limits any carbs you’ll be allowed to have, like on a saturday out with friends…

[quote]David1991 wrote:
im glad people have given the advice to keep it clean, i really dont agree with a 2 day all out carb binge or even the low carb days having tons of cream, sausage, etc…i think you’ll always be better off with the clean foods.[/quote]

You might be surprised if you tried it. Cream and sausage are not inherently “dirty” foods. I’ve lost fat just fine while eating fatty meats (ribeye) and cream.

No, it’s not a problem. “Progress” is made by losing FAT, not losing weight. An ideal carb load fills up glycogen in the muscles and liver and can add quite a bit of scale weight. Gaining 3, or 10, pounds of scale weight, when little to none is fat, is not regressing.

[quote]andersons wrote:
David1991 wrote:
im glad people have given the advice to keep it clean, i really dont agree with a 2 day all out carb binge or even the low carb days having tons of cream, sausage, etc…i think you’ll always be better off with the clean foods.

You might be surprised if you tried it. Cream and sausage are not inherently “dirty” foods. I’ve lost fat just fine while eating fatty meats (ribeye) and cream.

for all those who say “you’ll be back to the weight by the 3rd day” dont u think thats a problem? i mean basically that leaves u with 2-3 days to make progress before ur carb loading again. i think it would make sense to keep it to 3 meals or so and maybe a full day for the more lean individuals.

No, it’s not a problem. “Progress” is made by losing FAT, not losing weight. An ideal carb load fills up glycogen in the muscles and liver and can add quite a bit of scale weight. Gaining 3, or 10, pounds of scale weight, when little to none is fat, is not regressing.

[/quote]

to the first thing: i guess it depends on the person

2nd: yea i know the actual weight doesnt matter, i’ve just heard from other members/coaches that if u go overboard with a 2 day carb load u can gain a lot of fat or stall it if ur trying to lose fat. again i guess u have to try things to see how it works but i cant see needing more than 36 hours straight