Anabolic Diet/Bodyopus suckfest

Is anybody else out there fed up with trying to get cut on these low carb diets? I know I can’t be the only one. I have NO energy to work out at all, and then when I carb load, I find myself eating a whole bunch of crap that can’t possibly be good for me. What ever happened to a good old healthy bodybuilding diet? All I ever read on this board is how well these diets are working for everyone. There has to be something to this, but it really doesn’t click for me. Is there anyone out there with the same experiences with this dilemma?

I agree. You need carbs to give you the energy to work hard. I think those no-carb diets are a load of crap, but that is just me.

No one diet is perfect for everyone. They all need to be tweaked to fit one’s needs. How long were you on the diet? Most people’s bodies adjust to the low carbsafter a few weeks, if you did not, then maybe you should try to up the carbs a little, find a level that works for you.

as for carb loading, you wrote :"I find myself eating a whole bunch of crap that can't possibly be good for me." Define crap, a bunch of sugary, processed foods, what are you eating. If you are eating garbage on your loading days, you are shooting yourself in the foot, and of course you will not see any results.

Pre and post workout carbs are a must, even on a low carb diet. Make sure you’re getting them in. Yes, you will have to get used to feeling flat in the gym and perhaps watching your lift numbers hover and drop, but the whole point is to reduce bf as rapidly as possible, not to build new muscle.

No one should really expect to blow people away with their numbers while on a low carb diet, however when you can literally watch the fat dissappear it sure feels good. If you feel that any diet isn't working for you for any reason, then monkey around with it until you find a version that works for you.

I have to agree w/ you with a CKD such as bodyopus not working b/c I tried it several times w/ no success whatsoever. The problem for me was the high fat intake which caused me bloating, fat gain, loss of sex drive, etc.
I will say though that keeping carbs low w/out all the fat works wonders for me. I feel better, “perform” better, and lose fat quite steadily.
If its not working for you, simply change it. I’ll admit being stupid for a long time, being on-off bodyopus, the ketogenic diet, anabolic diet, atkins, etc with no results. I kept doing it b/c I was convinced it was the only way to go, don’t make my same mistake, I did this over the course of 2 years.
ANY diet will work once you meet a few requirements, get enough protein (1g per lb) is a good start, enough EFAs (use fish oils), and keep calories below maintenance. If you want to keeps carb low eat lean meats, supplement w/ efa’s, and eat lots of veggies w/ a little fruit. Cycling carbs works well too to benefit leptin. If you keep fats low, you might actually benefit getting some refined carbs b/c of the high GI. Even try an isocaloric diet, similar to the zone. It works just as well if not better than a keto diet for many.
I will admit being pro paleolithic dieting, but now incorporate high carb “refeed” days. I was theorizing this, that throughout our history humans have evolved on a certain diet (again, meats, greens, efas, along w/ some nuts, root vegetables perhaps, fruit and berries). OK, eating natural foods is good, and refined foods and sugary ones are bad. OK, this is a given. But consider this, many of us are likely overweight from unnatural factors, and many of us were meant to be leaner than we actually are, some reasons could be mothers nutrition during pregnancy, formula as a baby, nutrition throughout our development, EFA deficiencies, etc. all which would have been unnatural during most of our existance. So it stands to reason that it may be necessary to do something unnatural (not meaning drugs) to get back a level of leanness we want to reach, getting below our given set-point.Therefore, eating sugary, high gi refined carbs and candy (low in fat)can benefit leptin more and make our brains sense things are a little more normal than they actually are. So although those carb-up days may seem unnatural, so may the fact that we are much heavier than we are “supposed” to be. Its about compromises. (I realize I grossly simplified some people’s reasons for being overweight, most from high calorie, high fat and carb diet w/ little activity, but some are this way for other reasons, especially if they are dieting and working out and remain heavy)

The keto diets are for people looking for maximal fat loss while sparing muscle.Of course you cant train heavy with no/low carb diets,your muscle glycogen is extremely lowered,but why is it so important to train heavy anyways?The fact that your tired and fatiqued on this diet makes me beleive your body doesnt efficiently burn fat for energy, and that energy pathway should be worked.

I bet they work but I have too much trouble sticking with them. I would rather follow a more balanced diet plan, and just keep tweaking it as my goals change.

I have absolutely nothing to base this on, but I think rapid fat loss, then rapid weight gain, then rapid fat loss, etc, cannot be too healthy for the body. I’d rather do things slowly and surely.

I have had great sucess on the Bodyopus diet. The only thing that really works for me is to go low carb for 2 weeks(bodyopus) then do a strict diet 40%P,40%C,20%F. Eating only clean foods.

One other thing, I don’t follow the bodyopus model for carb ups. The 24hours after the depletion work out I eat about 400g of Protien and 600g of carbs. The next day I eat about 300g of Protien and 300g of Carbs. Using this I never really pack on the Fat I lost the previous 5-6 days.

Thank you for your reactions. I have been away for a couple of days, so I haven’t had a chance to post back. As for what kind of “crap” I’m eating, I will say that I crave sugary stuff big time. Dairy Queen, Culvers, and etc. I know, I should stay away from that stuff, but this diet makes a “binge eater” out of you. WSTRAINER, could you get more specific about “energy pathways”? I do get fat loss results from this diet, but I’m just so disgusted with my lack of energy that I always give it up prematurely. The longest I’ve been able to stay with it is 5 weeks, and I was leaner than I’ve ever been. I don’t really believe in the pre and post workout carb consumption. I think staying in a state of ketosis is what makes this thing tick. Any other ideas???

You say you don’t believe in post work out carbs. Try it some time, It works wonders for me on recoperation, but I don’t get the fat loss I get without. If you take 30-100 grams of carbs after a hard work out there is very little chance that you will come out of ketosis. Just make sure the carbs you injest doesn’t include fructose.

When people are fat, its usually because of insulin resistance,and going on a diet will not immediately fix this problem.With natural over the counter supplements it will take anywhere from 6 to 24 months to fix this condition, it may be faster with drugs like Metformin and Bromo but most of my clients arent interested in taking drugs and Im no Dr.For yourself, when on a keto diet you lose weight, but once you introduce carbs (and for some the G.I of foods doesnt matter much)you begin to gain fat again because your insulin resistant(to a degree)and unless you correct the problem, you will be involved in a viscous circle of Yo-Yo dieting,which have many drawbacks.I have seen much damage to peoples metabolism from these fad weight loss clinics that say a calorie is a calorie and the only way to lose fat is by calorie deficit.This is total garbage and unacceptible in todays society ,these people are scammers to the worst degree.Anyways in my practice I work with peoples metabolism to lose weight and gain muscle,but I never make promises.To me its not what diet is the best,its whats the best diet for YOU!And if your insulin resistant,carbs might not be the best thing to eat right now.

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with WSTRNR on this topic.
I truly believe that in order to lose fat you must cut calories, thus creating an energy deficit…think about it this way, the law of thermodynamics is the same as the law of gravity…you can’t get around it…If one does keto at mntc calories or above, they are not going to lose fat…Now why does keto work so well?..for one, as WSTRNR points out, it does blunt insulin, thus speeding fat loss…for two, research has been equivocal in whether it aids in LBM retention, but in my experience, it does to some extent.
In regards to those of you who lose energy on this diet, it does take some repeated bouts of keto dieting before your body becomes fully adpated to this type of energy source (FFA and ketones). Another thing to point out here is that research is equivocal on whether keto dieting promotes or mitigates the problem of insulin resistance. Definitely from an acute standpoint, as your body is using FFA and ketones for fuel, you will be insulin resistant once carbs are reintroduced…BUT, if you read Lyle, JB, and others, the correct way to come off a keto diet is to graduall introduce carbs, starting with fructose and maybe some small amounts of middle GI to low II foods such as Honey (which i use) and blueberries, rasberries, blackeberries, blended in a low-carb protein powder…IMO carbs should be kept minimal the first days of reintegrating them into the diet…whats the problem with this?..once most people get the taste of carbs in their mouth they lose it, and the carbs DON’T get reintroduced gradually, thus definitely contributing to fat re-gain when you are acutely insulin resistant…you need to give the body time to shift fuels and reduce the concentrations of FFA and ketones in the blood and muscles…HOW TO avoid bingeing…well, discipline for one, and 5-HTP for another…also, many drink caffeine and abuse other thermo’s on this diet, all again contributing to acute insulin resistance (independent of the diet)…the key is coming off it…but that is the hardest part.

I cant recall the last time i designed a keto diet with below maintainance calories,I just havent seen the benefit of that is.Even in Bodyopus it was suggested not to go below 10% maintainance or you risk sacrificing LBM.By reducing calories below maintainance we risk a few things,such as futher reducing anabolic hormones like testosterone,which will cause LBM loss and cause a further reduction of Thyroid,which will lower the amount of calories lost per day,which will slow down our fat loss rate.I beleive people think they’ll lose fat faster if they create a greater calorie deficit,but I have found this only to extend the amount of time needed to diet(due to slowdown)and cause RMR to decrease more than it should which will screw us up after we quit dieting.

i stay extremely tight on my low carb diet. Though when i carb up…i get completley out of hand and eat everything in a 3 mile radius, then feel terrible afterwards.

T-dawg is a good compromise encouraging post workout carbs.

Vain68 is right on this one, can’t break this law of thermodynamics. Calories are THE deciding factor in terms of weight/fat loss, although there are several others that matter as well, just not nearly as much.
Regardless of what Atkins or others say, even on a keto diet, if one eats at or above maintenance they will remain at or gain weight. Keto diets aren’t magical and allow fat loss at maintence calories. The extra calorie loss from ketone excretion is about 100cals a day, tops. If you set a diet up at maintenance, THEN burn excess calories with cardio and lifting, the diet isn’t maintenance level to the body b/c to the body, excercise and burning a certain amt. of cals and restricting cals. is essentially identical, to the body (aside from other adaptions that take place from exercise). But there MUST be a calorie defecit.
Personally I find a greater restriction on calories allows faster fat loss w/ not much muscle loss, I may be lucky but this works for me. I also do frequent refeeds to bump leptin which probably allows me to continually make progress.