I'm on Day 7 of the induction phase of the Anabolic Diet, and I seem to be in a deep state of ketosis, according to the ketostix (they are dark purple). If I understand correctly, once I start effectively using ketones for energy, I won't seem to be in ketosis, because the ketones will be used for energy. Roughly how long does that usually take? Should the ketones disappear by the end of the induction phase, or does it take a couple full cycles of carb ups?
I ask because, although I feel alright generally speaking, I can't concentrate at all. I look forward to regaining some focus.
Look, as I understand it, on the AD you eventually use ketones derived from fat as your primary fuel source, as opposed to carbs. If you have ketones in your urine, that is an indication that your body has not adapted to using ketones for fuel. I want to know how long it takes for your body to adjust to using ketones for its primary fuel source, as opposed to just pissing them out. (Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong about any of this).
Obviously, I'm interested in fat loss - but I'm also interested in health, even energy levels, mood, and mental focus. These things DO matter, and "overall calorie intake" does not address these issues.
When are you testing your urine? Most people find those stix horribly innacurate; does your urine have the heavy/sweet smell characteristic of ketosis? Has the fog cleared, as Ghost22 mentioned? Are your hunger pangs reduced?
The lower the dietary carbs, the more rapid the fat loss;
The lower the dietary carbs, the more lean body mass is spared;
The lower the dietary carbs the longer the diet remains capable of reducing body fat.
Thus while it might be true that a ketogenic state isn't strictly necessary for fat loss and that such a state does not guarantee fat loss (or prevent it via its absence) it appears to be equally true that a ketogenic state, at least according to this survey of the current research, would be preferable for those wishing to lose the greatest amount of body fat as quickly as possible while sparing the greatest amount of lean body mass. Know anyone who might be interested in that sort of thing?
I thought it takes about 3-4 months(or weeks?) before you body adapts fully. 7 days is really the beginning and your at the stage where every new day can often bring different feelings.
If your so concerned about being in a ketogenic state, then maybe you should take out your carb days completly for a few weeks before you carb load. After 2 full days of carbs its possible that your body will need to adjust itself over again to get back to ketosis.
Well, I find myself in the vast minority in this regard, and I'm fully aware of that too, but I firmly feel I can reach ketosis in 48-72 hours.
I drop my carbs COMPLETELY, that helps, and by that I mean no nuts and minimal veggies during the initial stage, additional fat only comes from oils such as liquid fish oil and macadamia nut oil and EVOO.
Additionally, I use leucine with every meal and oftentimes, glucose disposal agents like chromium polynicotinate, Na-R-ALA, and vanadyl sulfate to drop my blood sugar. Yeah, it sucks going down (into ketosis), but it's worth it to me to get there that much quicker.
Now, to be fully "fat-adapted", as has been discussed above, most people believe one can be in a "hard ketosis" in less than two weeks. I think there are additional adaptations that take place over the course of a month or two that make you more efficient at it once you are in ketosis.
OP, why the AD? Ever considered just doing a full-on ketogenic diet? You can still have a cheat meal on Sunday (arbitrary) nights before bed. I find that with the AD, 48 hours carb-load is waaaaaaay to much. I don't think I'm alone in this regard; CT has written about this too. You work so hard to get into ketosis, why pull yourself out for that long?
perhaps because he actually want's to train with intensity, and the only way to to that is to include carbs in your diet. Intramuscular triglyceride cannot provide ATP quick enough for anaerobic activities (i.e. weightlifting, and HIIT)
so unless you can achieve your physique goals by going for a 30 minute walk 3 days a week, you need to eat carbs.
Hey, not arguing with what you're saying - what you are forgetting, however is that teetering on the edge of ketosis, say 60-75g CHO/day makes you feel absolutely horrendous: sugar cravings, mental fog, irritability, and lack of endurance.
When you start flirting with it, you're either in or you're out. So yes, I am absolutely concerned about being in ketosis so I can lose fat and ACTUALLY ADHERE TO MY DIET.
Affliction - I was intrigued by the claims of the AD. Mainly that the carb ups would give me more energy for workouts, and also that they release a bunch of chemicals that do good things... that's about as much as I really retained.
I agree that two days may be too long to carb up, but the AD doesn't require that you carb up that long. If I remember correctly, the carb ups can last from between 12-36 hours, depending on the person. You have to play with it a bit to determine how long it takes you to "fill up" on carbs. I suspect that I'll be closer to 12 hours, but we'll see.
This isn't even a study! The author just draws unfounded conclusions from nothing as usual with these type of articles
"Different diets (e.g., high-protein/low-carbohydrate vs. low-protein/high-carbohydrate) lead to different biochemical pathways (due to the hormonal and enzymatic changes)"
The usual: he compares high carb, low protein diets to high protein, high fat diets- which tend to have better adherence anyway, and have umm... HIGH PROTEIN.
Which is the single most important determinant of weight loss and quality of weight lost behind total kcal intake. No one is contesting that. And he still manages to fail to support his contentions or reference anything.
Then the rest of what he talks is about diabetes patients, his primary evidence, which obviously aren't a reliable model for the average trainee. Pleaase.
Every study I ever see supporting the anti-carb agenda is like this, and it is getting old.
Let's see a reputable source, doing a controlled long term study, in laboratory conditions, with isocaloric, isonitrogeous diets exchanging fat and carbohydrate intake that shows any advantage in weight loss or quality of weight loss for fat.
Not only does this not exist, but some research has shown the opposite to a degree- that carbs provide a more readily available energy source and by this pathway can increase metabolic rate by up to 4% compared to the fat treatment.
the discussion in the comments section is quite enlightening
I don't think the research says what you think either. And from what I've read, I have a feeling that JM has done more reading than the average guy who has read a book by Taubes and a handful of (potentially biased) articles across various bodybuilding or low carb websites. There is a pretty big contingent of individuals out there who seem to enjoy make believe physiology. I don't blame most, and have no problem with people disagreeing with me.
But I post regularly on another small forum not re: to BB or nutrition, and the occasional influx of relentless anti carb, everyone should eat 100% meat diet zealots who post their opinions like a fact and back them up with inconclusive studies and make believe physiology get on my nerves!
Maybe this gives an idea of why some of the people on the other site of this issue (check out bodyrecomposition) are kind of an angry bunch when this gets brought up.
Regardless of all this, my opinion is that people need to get with the picture. Create a deficit. Eat lots of protein. Eat nutritious foods without baseless discrimination. Train smart. Worry about the rest when you are at your genetic potential and dieting to contest condition because otherwise it's rarely ever going to make a real difference.
Advice I wish I took myself more often to the point I feel somewhat hypocritical giving it, but there you have it.
I have nothing against ketogenic diets or people doing the AD either and wish the original poster best of luck! I've done similar plans myself and enjoyed sweet results for the most part. I am merely commenting on some of the assertions re: the literature and high fat diets.
JMoUCF87 - You seem overly focused on the "deficit". As others have already said, your claim that the calorie deficit is the only thing that matters for losing fat is highly debatable. I suspect you are wrong, but I'll let others debate that with you...
What I have already said is that I am concerned about many things other than fat loss... mental clarity, energy levels, mood, etc... These things are directly connected to whether or not I am utilizing ketones for energy.
I'll feel a whole lot different if I have 3000 calories of pasta as opposed to 3000 calories of steak and olive oil. And I'll feel a whole lot different before my body begins utilizing ketones as opposed to after. That was my original question, how long until the body adapts to using ketones. This is clearly important for many reasons.