[quote]tonetone2 wrote:
Hey newbie here, Was wondering if anyone could help me out on where to get ahold of this book
Thanks
[/quote]
Here ya go:
It’s the first link.
Cheers,
JK29
Hey Everyone,
After 9 years of training and trying different diets I decided to finally give the anabolic diet a try.I have always wanted to do it but felt this is a great time for me.
I am currently 220lbs, I am in the maintenance stage of the diet 7 days in and I am already down 7lbs probably all water. I am following the book exactly as it says, i am however still getting to grips with the diet and building a good routine.
I am having bacon, Steaks mostly braising as I cannot afford sirloing, some whey, whole eggs, egg whites, tuna fish, lots of cheese, whipped cream, olive oil, flexseed oils and milled flax seed. I am looking forward to get out of the maintenance stage so I can get to carb loading mostly so i can have a decent squat session.
I felt like crap days 1-6 but this morning i actually feel ok!
So guys, could some of you give me some good ideas or advice about food choice?Some tasty stuff to meat?
I am currently have 3-4 meals but also have snacks like nuts, extra cheese like string cheese, some other fats too. I am however just trying to think of some easy prep stuff to take into work and around while i am walking doing work related stuff.
Have you guys seen any good results?This is a HUGE thread glad its still going strong
Nice to meet you all
[quote]TheBearHead wrote:
Hey Everyone,
After 9 years of training and trying different diets I decided to finally give the anabolic diet a try.I have always wanted to do it but felt this is a great time for me.
I am currently 220lbs, I am in the maintenance stage of the diet 7 days in and I am already down 7lbs probably all water. I am following the book exactly as it says, i am however still getting to grips with the diet and building a good routine.
I am having bacon, Steaks mostly braising as I cannot afford sirloing, some whey, whole eggs, egg whites, tuna fish, lots of cheese, whipped cream, olive oil, flexseed oils and milled flax seed. I am looking forward to get out of the maintenance stage so I can get to carb loading mostly so i can have a decent squat session.
I felt like crap days 1-6 but this morning i actually feel ok!
So guys, could some of you give me some good ideas or advice about food choice?Some tasty stuff to meat?
I am currently have 3-4 meals but also have snacks like nuts, extra cheese like string cheese, some other fats too. I am however just trying to think of some easy prep stuff to take into work and around while i am walking doing work related stuff.
Have you guys seen any good results?This is a HUGE thread glad its still going strong
Nice to meet you all
[/quote]
Pork Rinds
[quote]TheBearHead wrote:
So guys, could some of you give me some good ideas or advice about food choice?Some tasty stuff to meat?
I am currently have 3-4 meals but also have snacks like nuts, extra cheese like string cheese, some other fats too. I am however just trying to think of some easy prep stuff to take into work and around while i am walking doing work related stuff.
Have you guys seen any good results?This is a HUGE thread glad its still going strong
Nice to meet you all
[/quote]
Sounds like you’re well on your way! The foods you listed are on track. However, I for one keep bacon to a minimum.
Do some google searches for zero carb recipes. I’ve made low carb bread and things like that before. Most of the time I stick to the basics… Meat and Veggies
I’ve had success on this diet before. I was on it for a 2 year period. Half of that I was doing what I call the “dirty AD”. Meaning that I was eating the worst food choices, having a full 2 day load, and still partying (college). I hunkered down post graduation and did a recomp with good success under MODOK’s tutelage.
I then used AD to bulk up 20 lbs before switching to a higher carb diet to take me up another 25lbs… This was a mistake. I added a large amount of fat after adding carbs back into my diet. The bulking phase I completed while on AD was going well, but at the time I was not patient.
I cut down with a traditional bb style diet under a prep coach consultant. Unfortunately this put me back to my pre-AD-Bulking weight/mass set point.
After looking back at my notes I saw that I was having the most success while bulking with AD (before switching to carbs). I’ve since started slowly gaining weight with AD again and have been loving every part of it! I don’t know why I ever stopped. It’s by far the easiest at most efficient eating style for me.
JK
[quote]JK29 wrote:
[quote]TheBearHead wrote:
So guys, could some of you give me some good ideas or advice about food choice?Some tasty stuff to meat?
I am currently have 3-4 meals but also have snacks like nuts, extra cheese like string cheese, some other fats too. I am however just trying to think of some easy prep stuff to take into work and around while i am walking doing work related stuff.
Have you guys seen any good results?This is a HUGE thread glad its still going strong
Nice to meet you all
[/quote]
Sounds like you’re well on your way! The foods you listed are on track. However, I for one keep bacon to a minimum.
Do some google searches for zero carb recipes. I’ve made low carb bread and things like that before. Most of the time I stick to the basics… Meat and Veggies
I’ve had success on this diet before. I was on it for a 2 year period. Half of that I was doing what I call the “dirty AD”. Meaning that I was eating the worst food choices, having a full 2 day load, and still partying (college). I hunkered down post graduation and did a recomp with good success under MODOK’s tutelage.
I then used AD to bulk up 20 lbs before switching to a higher carb diet to take me up another 25lbs… This was a mistake. I added a large amount of fat after adding carbs back into my diet. The bulking phase I completed while on AD was going well, but at the time I was not patient.
I cut down with a traditional bb style diet under a prep coach consultant. Unfortunately this put me back to my pre-AD-Bulking weight/mass set point.
After looking back at my notes I saw that I was having the most success while bulking with AD (before switching to carbs). I’ve since started slowly gaining weight with AD again and have been loving every part of it! I don’t know why I ever stopped. It’s by far the easiest at most efficient eating style for me.
JK
[/quote]
How is the gaining going? Are you gaining with relatively small amounts of fat gained?
[quote]RyuuBane wrote:
How is the gaining going? Are you gaining with relatively small amounts of fat gained?[/quote]
It’s going well. I’ve come up about 6 lbs in 54 days. 0.79lbs/week.
My strength is coming up noticeably. (5/3/1)
I have noticed some storage… but nothing to be alarmed about quite yet. I took caliper and tape measurements at the onset so I’ll update with some of those in a few weeks.
Right now I’m eating around 3700-4000 calories a day. And ~5000-6000 on my 24hour carbup. An average day has me around 220 Protein 320 Fat and 28 Net carbs.
[quote]JK29 wrote:
[quote]RyuuBane wrote:
How is the gaining going? Are you gaining with relatively small amounts of fat gained?[/quote]
It’s going well. I’ve come up about 6 lbs in 54 days. 0.79lbs/week.
My strength is coming up noticeably. (5/3/1)
I have noticed some storage… but nothing to be alarmed about quite yet. I took caliper and tape measurements at the onset so I’ll update with some of those in a few weeks.
Right now I’m eating around 3700-4000 calories a day. And ~5000-6000 on my 24hour carbup. An average day has me around 220 Protein 320 Fat and 28 Net carbs.
[/quote]
Nice, keep it up. I know I’m bad about changing things when I’m making slow progress and either regress or get stupid fat all over again. Slow and steady with what works individually wins the day!
To JK, sorry if I’m going over old ground that you’ve covered previously in this thread, but have you experienced any significant differences in terms of weight gained (body fat vs muscle) while in a calorie surplus on the AD as opposed to what you previously encountered on the stock standard high carb method ?
For the record I’m not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, and I have not hit the goals that I’ve set for my self.
It has been my experience that I gained less fat while bulking following the Anabolic Diet verses a more standard high carb approach. During the start of my last bulk I went from ~179 to ~198 with AD before switching to a high carb approach to get me to 220. The weight I gained in the first portion on AD was much much better weight than the weight I gained after making the switch. It wasn’t perfect weight… but better weight.
As a side note: I’ve started to lean towards the thinking of Rob Faigin, Charles Poliquin, and Vince Gironda. They’ve had success with 2 smaller carb ups per week (Wednesday and Saturday for example). DH (in the old AD thread) suggested that Rob Faigin’s method worked better in general for fat loss and especially well for those that can’t control themselves over a 24-48 hours carb up. Over the next few months I will transition to the 2 small (200-300g) carb ups a week on Wednesdays and Saturdays and see how it goes. Personally I feel as if I will do better on this iteration of the cyclic low carb diet. I do have a fairly large capacity for food and I can let it get away from me. My 13-15 hours carb ups on Saturdays consist of 6000-7000 calories easily. Even while “bulking”/“mass building” this can be a hindrance.
A couple of other changes I plan on making are: Adding more meat variety, taking in at least 10-20g of fish oil a day, eating more fish, slowly increasing the volume of my training sessions, and adding a floating interval training day to my week (either with strongman movements, battle ropes, sprints, or sled pulls)
That’s where I’m at. Hope that kinda answered your question.
Cheers,
JK
Hey guys, just scroll all the way down to my question if you’re not interested in my experiences with the AD!
I just went back to the AD for my third cut. I had great success the first two times, even with sometimes messy refeeds. I was down to 7% BF after the second cut, with minimal muscle loss, and ready to bulk, when a shoulder injury sidelined me for months. After the that, my bar exam and the new job got in the way, so I was back to about 15%.
I wanted to try leangains this time. Having more, smaller carb-ups per week didn’t sound bad, and leangains seems more suitable for the slow bulk I’m planning after the cut. I wanted to experiment a bit with the effects of partitioning too.
Leangains went well at first, but when I got sub 9%, I crashed hard suddenly.
I was extremely hungry and felt like a zombie. My calories and macros were in check (didn’t change anything before the crash), but it’s a fine line dieting in the lower bf-range…guess my body fat was too low and my body couldn’t produce enough leptine with the carbs I was eating.
Diet breaks didn’t help, the hunger returned as soon as I started dieting again. So I’m back on the AD.
It feels fantastic, hunger is gone, even with the same deficit, even my moderate low fat carb-ups on the weekends are fun, and it’s much better for socialising.
I don’t stuff myself with crap on the weekends, but it’s extremely liberating to go to a restaurant with family and friends without counting calories or macros. AD is the most forgiving diet I know, it’s the bomb for cutting fat.
Not the perfect diet by any means, but it doesn’t mess with your head like other diets and it’s almost impossible to crash because of the refeeds. Love it.
So, here’s my question:
I want to optimize my carb ups. My refeed is about 24 hours long and starts Friday evening after a heavy workout. Fat is as low as possible, mostly simple carbs (a tad over 10 grams per kg of lean mass) and 1 gram protein per pound lean mass.
What I’m interested in are the carb-free meals before the carb-up. Fat digests slowly and I should have a lot of fat circulating in my body the time I eat my first (fast) carb meal.
Should I eat fats rather early on Friday, and mostly protein at lunch? What about the calories on that day (without the carb up meals)? Should I keep calories rather low to burn as much fat as possible before carbing up? Or just eat the first half of the day normally and ignore the upcoming carb up?
Thanks!
From what I’ve read, I would advice treating the meals before your carb up like any other Protein/Fat meal.
You’re body will still be using fat as a fuel source during your carb up. Especially one that is “only” 24 hours. This is one of the reasons that 20% of your calories should still come from at on the carb ups. (In the original Anabolic diet he recommended 30-40% from fat on carb ups).
"If you don?t give the body enough fat, it will burn muscle, which is exactly what you don?t want.
The same principle is involved during the carb loading phase of the diet. You still need fat.
If you don?t give it fat, protein will get eaten up as energy. You also have to remember that the
body will try to transform any fat available to storage fat if you limit fat. It says basically, ?I?m
not going to get rid of this stuff because I may need it down the road.? You limit fat in your
diet, and your body wants to lay it on as a way of keeping it around. You end up cutting dietary
fat but not bodyfat.
This may sound like nonsense, but it?s not. Give the body fat and it will use that fat and burn
off bodyfat. The more fat you give it, the freer it will be with enzymes for fat breakdown, and
the more bodyfat you?ll lose. You basically lose fat by eating it."
– Dr Mauro DiPasquale (1995)
Another interesting excerpt… I don’t think most people should do this, but this goes to show that having some fat may not be the end of the world over a carb up… (once your an AD veteran)
"After being on the diet for awhile, you may want to begin to look at the weekends as a high
carb/high fat experience while paying less attention to protein. Some bodybuilders who have
been on the diet for an extended period have found that a weekend diet of around 40?45 percent
fat, 50?55 percent carbs, and only 7?10 percent protein can produce excellent results.
The added fat aids in slowing the release of glucose in the blood, thus avoiding sugar rushes
or crashes that can leave you feeling spent and irritable. By using lower glycemic foods with
increased dietary fat, you?ll also be able to extend the length of your carb load and not smooth
out as quickly, if this is what you desire. As for the protein, you?re getting enough during the
week that a sufficient store is available to get through the weekend with no problems."
– Dr Mauro DiPasquale (1995)
EDIT: (I almost forgot about these studies)
For your reading:
“In a study which looked surprisingly like a CKD, subjects consumed a low-carb, high fat (but non-ketogenic) diet for 5 days and depleted muscle glycogen with exercise (21). Subjects were then given a total 500 grams of carbohydrate in three divided meals. During the first 24 hours, despite the high calorie (and carb) intake, there was a negative fat balance of 88 grams meaning that fat was actually lost during the period of high-carbohydrate eating. When muscle glycogen is depleted, incoming carbohydrates appear to be used preferentially to refill glycogen stores, and fat continues to be used for energy production. Additionally the excess carbohydrates which were not stored as glycogen were used for energy (21). In general, the synthesis of fat from glycogen (referred to as De Novo Lipogenesis) in the short term is fairly small (22,23).”
"In a similar study, individuals consumed a low-carb, high fat diet for 5 days and then consumed very large amounts of carbohydrates (700 to 900 grams per day) over a five day period (25). During the first 24 hours, with a carbohydrate intake of 700 grams and a fat intake of 60 grams per day, there was a fat gain of only 7 grams. As with the previous study discussed, this indicates that the body continued to use fat for fuel during this time period. In the second 24 hours, with an intake of 800 grams of carbohydrate and a fat intake of 97 grams, there was a fat gain of 127 grams (25) indicating that the body had shifted out of a “fat burning” mode as muscle glycogen stores became full. This is unlike the suggestions being made for the CKD, where the carbohydrate intake during the second 24 hours will be lower than in the first 24 hours.
As long as fat intake is kept low and carbohydrate intake is reduced to approximately 5 gram/kg lean body mass during the second 24 hours, fat regain should be minimal. Once again, individuals are encouraged to keep track of changes in body composition with different amounts and duration of carb-loading to determine what works for them"
-SimplyShredded
Cheers,
JK
Thanks a lot, very interesting read! You can’t do much damage in 24 hours anyway, so I’ll experiment a bit with different carb-up approaches.
AD Update:
I come and go from this thread every 1/4 or 1/2 year it seems, but here is how I’m doing on AD.
From July 2014 to October 2015 I “bulked” on AD. I went from 184 lbs to ~215 lbs. At the peak eating ~4100 cal a day (60% fats). In November I started a “slow cut / body recomp” which has been going well. I’m implementing the techniques I learned while under the tutelage of MODOK back in 2012 when he consulted for me. I had my best results on this diet back then when working with him. He basically showed me how to dial in the diet to give ample calories for training yet still burn body fat. I’m doing a 4 day a week split on a BBB (Big Beyond Belief) style training system with 1-3 HIT rowing cardio sessions a week. I’m slowwwwly dropping some calories keeping my Protein around 1.25g/lbs. Currently my fat % is around 57% daily, but as I recomp it will get in the 48%-50% range. The beauty is; as one drops the dietary fat on this diet, the body (which is now a primed fat burner) looks to stored triglycerides for fuel.
The reason I’m posting today is to add an interesting twist to this journey. I recently got my DNA sequenced by FitnessGenes. It turns out this diet is ideal for a genotype like my own.
On the PPARA Gene ("Fat Burning”) I am a CG (23% Globally). Having one of each allele indicates that i have the ability to efficiently switch between carbohydrate and fat bruning. Not as good as a GG but better than a CC. I could only imagine this to be an advantage on this style of eating.
With a combinations of factors I tested as having a below average insulin efficiency, which could lead to difficulties metabolizing glucose. “For people in this group it is particularly important to avoid excess sugar and starchy carbohydrates.” This is excellent validation of what I’ve found empirically.
I also have an RR on the ACTN3 Gene (“Speed”). This means that I am suited for “speed/power” type training opposed to endurance. I have always been of the thinking that AD is better suited for a “speed/power” type athlete.
Just some nifty stuff,
Cheers,
JK
Interesting enough, I read this about the Anabolic Diet today on a website called “healthline.” I wonder what Dr Mauro would think about these statements?
Risks of the anabolic diet
The anabolic diet should only be followed for a set period of time. It might work for a bodybuilder or weightlifter preparing for a competition.
While the diet may increase lean body tissue while decreasing body fat stores, it doesn’t mean the diet is healthy. The primary drawback to the anabolic diet is the lack of fiber and micronutrients, primarily from minimal vegetable, fruit, and legume intake. While the weekend phase does allow for high carbohydrate intake, few vegetables, no legumes, and zero fruits are recommended for the weekday phase.
This imbalance will result in a decreased intake of antioxidants, essential for combating oxidative stress created by exercise. Because the diet also lacks fiber, it can lead to an overgrowth of unhealthy gut bacteria and chronic constipation.
According to some animal studies, insulin doesn’t work as well on high-fat, ketogenic diets like this one. In order to metabolize carbohydrates, even the small amounts in the weekday phase, you need insulin. Chronic high-fat diets can lead to insulin resistance, which can increase risk of heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and metabolic syndrome.
With the recommended 60 to 65 percent calorie from fat intake, even a moderate amount of time spent on the anabolic diet could lead to insufficient insulin function. As the amount of fat intake is decreased, insulin function will return to its normal state.
It made me think… I’ve been on this “diet” for over 2 years. I ordered a glucose tester do conduct a glucose tolerance test as outlined by John Berardi, PhD in his recent article… I’m curious to see what I find!
I conducted the “oral glucose test” as outlined by John Berardi. From what I can gather it looks like I’m in the clear after being on AD for over 2 years.
Notes:
-
I conducted the test at the end of the day non fasted… Since I eat <30g of carbs a day I was curious if my end of day numbers would match “fasted” and it looks like they did
-
I used 2 drinks containing 69 grams of sugar that I drank in 2.5 min (Orange Juice and Gator Aid)
-
I conducted the test on a Friday prior to the start of my carbup on Saturday (Should be my most depleted day of the week)
1 Like
Been reading Vince Gironda’s book “The Wild Physique”
He was on the using fats for energy train way before our good Dr Di wrote AD.
Also here is his “Max Def Diet”:
That’s very interesting. Mine stays in the clear as well whenever I utilize the AD. Matter of fact, my readings are only bad whenever I go off of a lower carb, cyclical ketogenic type diet.
1 Like
I’m also a big fan of Vince Gironda!
1 Like
Thread Bump -
I’ve done the Anabolic Diet a few times in the past, and have had good results. Not great, but good. About 12 years ago, while doing 5/3/1, I was able to go from 240 down to 215, and could see the outline of my abs - I doubt if I was ever close to 10% Bf, but under 18% was my goal - nobody in my family has the ‘thin skin’ look, and I doubt if it is attainable for me without a significant amount of pain.
however, this will be the third (4th?) time that I have embarked on this journey of fat loss - at 57, there are some things that I should be careful of.
Started the diet on February 1st. the first week was relatively easy, but the second week was more difficult, however the 10-11th day was easier as far as energy and mood. Today is 2/17 and I still have not consumed any carbs, and have lost a total of 6 lbs.
Question to those who have tried this diet…
at 6’, 230 lbs - I am interested in loosing some fat initially, and thinking of extending the ‘no carb’ phase until I get some significant fat loss, but am unsure as to how the introduction of carbs would help the overall fat loss, or slow it.
and no, I have lost the actual book over time, and am working from memory.
any suggestions?
Thanks!~
I’ve done the AD a few times with great fat loss success, and what I ended up doing was a single 3-hour carb window. Basically a cheat meal+
I didn’t have the control to go two days of not eating like shit so I had to shorten it, and combined it with my cheat meal which I had been using with great success and just turned it into a 3 hour affair where I could easily hit 1000+ carbs. I was using this technique to essentially get stage lean shredded, so I was very lean when I was doing it and heavily calorie restricted. Which is to say a weekly cheat window was quite beneficial.
If you are starting from a point of being much fatter than that, I think an extended “dieting” period could certainly work, maybe a 4 week break in and a carb day every 2 weeks? Eventually with the goal of one week?
1 Like