Anabolic Diet 2.0

Fair enough, and you aren’t being a dick. I know where you are coming from and appreciate that you are trying to steer people in the right direction and want to correct what you feel to be bad advice.

The sentence you are referencing though was an aside at the end of a post that said he would have to experiment to find out what works best for him, after doing the diet as written for some time which includes the full 2 day refeed. And if you really want to follow the book to the letter, you are suppose to shoot for a 2 pound per week weight gain… I’ll let you decide if that’s a smart thing to do with a natural trainee.

I certainly wouldn’t recommend someone new to the diet or looking to pack on a bunch of weight follow my current plan, nor did I do so, again it was just a “heres how I do it” kind of thing at the end of my other advice.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/bodybuilding_on_the_anabolic_diet?id=2108681&pageNo=0

Here is another thread with a discussion about modifications to this style of eating (low carb with a carb up). In addition to Thibs stopping in and dropping huge amounts of knowledge, There are people in there with MUCH more experience than I have, and they weigh over 170 pounds so they might be worth listening to. Reading through there might shed some light on why I dont see it as necessary to eat 1500-2000g of carbs over two entire days.

I don’t really see what we are doing as “Frankensteining” the diet, but rather “evolving” the diet as best we can to fit our individual needs and goals, in addition to the latest research in nutrition.

This diet is well over 15 years old and has been test driven by thousands of body builders and strength athletes, and as a result several minor adjustments have been proposed. Combined with the latest findings in nutrition and training (like keeping carbs to later in the day and training in the evening if possible), its logical and natural to evolve the diet to incorporate those findings… To not do so would be idiotic in my opinion.

I find that I do much better when I have a higher percentage of my calories coming from protein than fat. I like to do around 50% protein, 40% fat, 30-40 net carbs. The actual Anabolic diet book allows for so much individual tweaking and customizing that almost any high protein diet could qualify as the anabolic diet.

Also, it should be noted that the original thread on this diet should be REQUIRED reading. Its long as all hell and it will probably be open in your browser for a few months… But its worth it. You wont be reading every post, but the ones by “Disc Hoss” and “Il Cazzo” are of note. If I recall right the threads that follow are also quite good and not nearly as long, and more long time users end up joining in. If you are really interested in the diet and the lifestyle this is the way to go though.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/my_experience_on_the_anabolic_diet?id=658379&pageNo=0

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
Lonnie what are the modifications you’ve made to AD? Any supplements?[/quote]

-I tend to eat “healthier” food choices, both for the fats and the carbs (lots of rice during the carb up day). Aside from my one cheat meal on Friday, everything is very healthy

-I Only do a One day carb up, with an occasional one on Tuesday if I’m doing lots of High intensity Cardio to lose weight (like 50-100 grams here, nothing close to Fridays madness)

-Losing fat: For the weekend I do a “Feast to Fast” protocol which is essentially a high carb/low fat diet until my last meal of the day where I eat whatever the hell I want. I basically eat food until I hate myself for eating that much food. The following day I do one of two things, a Protein Sparring Modified Fast where I only drink 3-5 protein shakes throughout the day, or I will drink only 1-2 and have a small low carb/high fat and protein meal at the end of the day

  • As far as supps, its just some BCAA during the workout (I’ve been using MAG-10 for a while, but its just too expensive), a Spike if I feel like I want to blow the doors off the gym that day. I also take SuperFood, Flameout, and FA3 just to cover my bases with those nutrients.[/quote]

Ha, pretty much exactly what I do. Good to know.

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
anybody tried a wheat/gluten free carbup? i carbed up with pizza and bread and stuff and felt like SHIT. couldnt wait for it to be over so i could get back on the high fat foods.

not sure if it was the carbs themselves, or the fact they were all wheat based.[/quote]

Potatoes and rice work best for me. Better pumps, less nasty bathroom experiences and more fullness.

Lonnie, every thing you’ve said is spot on.

Hey guys glad to finally get on here,

Everyone here seems really knowledgeable and I am under the impression that this forum is AAS friendly correct?

Well some quick background:
I respong terribly to carbs, I do not need many or any to gain muscle but I also dont need many to get fat. Regardless where I put them if i eaat them everyday I get fat end of story. Currently trying Carb backloading and even that doesnt really work because the surplus I need to grow just makes me fat when I include carbs.

Succesfully cut down for 218lbs to 170lbs using CKD and actually seemed to build some muscle in the process. A year later my stats are 193 lbs, 6’0 and about 10-12 percent BF according to a BF scale at my gym (not one of the cheap ones)

My goals are lean mass, I wanna put on weight and maintain my current BF I dont really care if it doesnt get any lower but I don’t want it to go any higher.

I was maintaining 193 lbs at 3100 cals a day while I did two weeks of “carb nite”

In terms of building muscle how does 220f/27 total carbs from fibrous veggies/and 286 protein look? that is 3230 calories on training days around 2800 on rest days with 200f/20total carbs/255 protein.

My carb up with most likely be just friday PWO where I will eat whatever and as much as I want starting off low fat ie rice and potatoes with lean meat and ending off with shit usually ice cream, kids cereal and some GF deserts. I still track it an previous carb nights have been aroun 600-650g and next day I would usually be a pound or so LIGHTER?

HOw does this look overall and if anyone cares im running 500mg test e and I’m on my last 3 weeks of tren e at 500mg as well and just introduced winny at 75ed. Gonna be running the winny and test 2-3 weeks longer than the tren.

Any advice is appreciated! Thanks guys!

[quote]Mikehr wrote:
Hey guys glad to finally get on here,

Everyone here seems really knowledgeable and I am under the impression that this forum is AAS friendly correct?

Well some quick background:
I respong terribly to carbs, I do not need many or any to gain muscle but I also dont need many to get fat. Regardless where I put them if i eaat them everyday I get fat end of story. Currently trying Carb backloading and even that doesnt really work because the surplus I need to grow just makes me fat when I include carbs.

Succesfully cut down for 218lbs to 170lbs using CKD and actually seemed to build some muscle in the process. A year later my stats are 193 lbs, 6’0 and about 10-12 percent BF according to a BF scale at my gym (not one of the cheap ones)

My goals are lean mass, I wanna put on weight and maintain my current BF I dont really care if it doesnt get any lower but I don’t want it to go any higher.

I was maintaining 193 lbs at 3100 cals a day while I did two weeks of “carb nite”

In terms of building muscle how does 220f/27 total carbs from fibrous veggies/and 286 protein look? that is 3230 calories on training days around 2800 on rest days with 200f/20total carbs/255 protein.

My carb up with most likely be just friday PWO where I will eat whatever and as much as I want starting off low fat ie rice and potatoes with lean meat and ending off with shit usually ice cream, kids cereal and some GF deserts. I still track it an previous carb nights have been aroun 600-650g and next day I would usually be a pound or so LIGHTER?

HOw does this look overall and if anyone cares im running 500mg test e and I’m on my last 3 weeks of tren e at 500mg as well and just introduced winny at 75ed. Gonna be running the winny and test 2-3 weeks longer than the tren.

Any advice is appreciated! Thanks guys!

[/quote]

That actually looks like an ideal setup to me. Just make sure you’re gaining quality mass and keep going with it. I don’t know why’d you’d be lighter unless your carb day has you on the toilet most of the time. Although, sometimes my weight won’t increase until 2 days after the carb up. Make sure you’re drinking a ton of water on the carb day.

[quote]Zach Rounsaville wrote:

[quote]Mikehr wrote:
Hey guys glad to finally get on here,

Everyone here seems really knowledgeable and I am under the impression that this forum is AAS friendly correct?

Well some quick background:
I respong terribly to carbs, I do not need many or any to gain muscle but I also dont need many to get fat. Regardless where I put them if i eaat them everyday I get fat end of story. Currently trying Carb backloading and even that doesnt really work because the surplus I need to grow just makes me fat when I include carbs.

Succesfully cut down for 218lbs to 170lbs using CKD and actually seemed to build some muscle in the process. A year later my stats are 193 lbs, 6’0 and about 10-12 percent BF according to a BF scale at my gym (not one of the cheap ones)

My goals are lean mass, I wanna put on weight and maintain my current BF I dont really care if it doesnt get any lower but I don’t want it to go any higher.

I was maintaining 193 lbs at 3100 cals a day while I did two weeks of “carb nite”

In terms of building muscle how does 220f/27 total carbs from fibrous veggies/and 286 protein look? that is 3230 calories on training days around 2800 on rest days with 200f/20total carbs/255 protein.

My carb up with most likely be just friday PWO where I will eat whatever and as much as I want starting off low fat ie rice and potatoes with lean meat and ending off with shit usually ice cream, kids cereal and some GF deserts. I still track it an previous carb nights have been aroun 600-650g and next day I would usually be a pound or so LIGHTER?

HOw does this look overall and if anyone cares im running 500mg test e and I’m on my last 3 weeks of tren e at 500mg as well and just introduced winny at 75ed. Gonna be running the winny and test 2-3 weeks longer than the tren.

Any advice is appreciated! Thanks guys!

[/quote]

That actually looks like an ideal setup to me. Just make sure you’re gaining quality mass and keep going with it. I don’t know why’d you’d be lighter unless your carb day has you on the toilet most of the time. Although, sometimes my weight won’t increase until 2 days after the carb up. Make sure you’re drinking a ton of water on the carb day.[/quote]

Hey thanks for the reply man! Yeah it was weird my theory was that since I was lo carb for so long my metabolism briefly stagnated then when i loaded the shock threw my body into in high gear. I remember getting crazy hot after the first carb meal.

After re reading the book I’m gonna do a sat pwo carb up as well the book reccomends 36 hours so 1 night seems like too littel for the supercompensation and anabolic results the doctor describes.

i know this is probably butchering the diet, but has anybody tried doing the carb up a little different during a fat loss phase? instead of doing 36-48 hours of straight carb up and keeping insulin elevated so long…im going to try doing 2 “nights” of carb ups. say friday and saturday night from 5pm-10pm and eating pro/fat all day friday and saturday still. this is for a fat loss phase.

Hey guys, thinking of starting AD pretty soon here I just have a couple questions.

First, I’m on a pretty tight budget, is all the protein/fat required by this diet a lot more expensive than cheap carbs? I know the weekends will be dirt cheap as I’ll just eat shit tons of rice/pasta etc. but I’m worried about finding more than a few sources of cheap fats/proteins.

Second, what are some of the cheapest foods you guys eat on this diet on the <25g carb days? I’m thinking nuts and tuna w/ mayo are gonna be my cheapest options but are there other good ones?

Last, how did your bodies respond to the 12 day start-up? I’ve heard you feel slow and have no energy by bigger guys, but that you feel just fine by smaller, leaner guy. Anyone have input on this?

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
i know this is probably butchering the diet, but has anybody tried doing the carb up a little different during a fat loss phase? instead of doing 36-48 hours of straight carb up and keeping insulin elevated so long…im going to try doing 2 “nights” of carb ups. say friday and saturday night from 5pm-10pm and eating pro/fat all day friday and saturday still. this is for a fat loss phase.[/quote]

Why would you do it that way? If you want to focus more on fat loss, just do the carb up for one day, or do it for 2 days but dont go insane. Or just control your calories on other days of the week.

I dont like the idea of doing the carb up, then going back to the “regular” diet and then doing another carb up. If you want to do 2 mini carb ups, its probably smarter to do it on 2 non consecutive days like Sat-Wed or something similar.

[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:
Hey guys, thinking of starting AD pretty soon here I just have a couple questions.

First, I’m on a pretty tight budget, is all the protein/fat required by this diet a lot more expensive than cheap carbs? I know the weekends will be dirt cheap as I’ll just eat shit tons of rice/pasta etc. but I’m worried about finding more than a few sources of cheap fats/proteins.

Second, what are some of the cheapest foods you guys eat on this diet on the <25g carb days? I’m thinking nuts and tuna w/ mayo are gonna be my cheapest options but are there other good ones?

Last, how did your bodies respond to the 12 day start-up? I’ve heard you feel slow and have no energy by bigger guys, but that you feel just fine by smaller, leaner guy. Anyone have input on this?[/quote]

Eggs. They are under 3 bucks for 18 of them which is 1300 calories, 90 grams of fat and 113 of Protein. Obviously you need to add more on top of that, but for 3 bucks thats certainly a good “base” to build your diet off of.

From there its things like ground beef (which can be had for $2-$5/pound depending on the leanness), protein powders in bulk, oils.

A daily menu of 12 eggs, a pound of 90% beef, a few shots of Olive Oil and some protein powder would certainly be a nice, cheap way to execute this diet.

As far as how the 12 day induction goes, its really one of those “everyone is different” kind of things. If you are coming from a long term carb heavy diet, you can certainly expect some days of mental fogginess, physical sluggishness, feeling “flat,” Losing some strength while you body converts over… But these are all “maybe” scenarios of which you might experience all or none.

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:
Hey guys, thinking of starting AD pretty soon here I just have a couple questions.

First, I’m on a pretty tight budget, is all the protein/fat required by this diet a lot more expensive than cheap carbs? I know the weekends will be dirt cheap as I’ll just eat shit tons of rice/pasta etc. but I’m worried about finding more than a few sources of cheap fats/proteins.

Second, what are some of the cheapest foods you guys eat on this diet on the <25g carb days? I’m thinking nuts and tuna w/ mayo are gonna be my cheapest options but are there other good ones?

Last, how did your bodies respond to the 12 day start-up? I’ve heard you feel slow and have no energy by bigger guys, but that you feel just fine by smaller, leaner guy. Anyone have input on this?[/quote]

Eggs. They are under 3 bucks for 18 of them which is 1300 calories, 90 grams of fat and 113 of Protein. Obviously you need to add more on top of that, but for 3 bucks thats certainly a good “base” to build your diet off of.

From there its things like ground beef (which can be had for $2-$5/pound depending on the leanness), protein powders in bulk, oils.

A daily menu of 12 eggs, a pound of 90% beef, a few shots of Olive Oil and some protein powder would certainly be a nice, cheap way to execute this diet.

As far as how the 12 day induction goes, its really one of those “everyone is different” kind of things. If you are coming from a long term carb heavy diet, you can certainly expect some days of mental fogginess, physical sluggishness, feeling “flat,” Losing some strength while you body converts over… But these are all “maybe” scenarios of which you might experience all or none.[/quote]

Awesome. Thanks for this reply, this was just what I needed to know.

Good to hear, now go out and and get ANABOLIC.

[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:
Hey guys, thinking of starting AD pretty soon here I just have a couple questions.

First, I’m on a pretty tight budget, is all the protein/fat required by this diet a lot more expensive than cheap carbs? I know the weekends will be dirt cheap as I’ll just eat shit tons of rice/pasta etc. but I’m worried about finding more than a few sources of cheap fats/proteins.

Second, what are some of the cheapest foods you guys eat on this diet on the <25g carb days? I’m thinking nuts and tuna w/ mayo are gonna be my cheapest options but are there other good ones?

Last, how did your bodies respond to the 12 day start-up? I’ve heard you feel slow and have no energy by bigger guys, but that you feel just fine by smaller, leaner guy. Anyone have input on this?[/quote]

Try shopping at a Costco or Sam’s club in bulk. This is where I get all of my meat. Also, beef is almost always going to be more expensive than other meats. Example of my staples foods from Sams’:

Boneless Skinless Chicken breast- $1.77/lb
Boneless Skinless Chicken thighs- $1.75/lb
Pork Loin- $1.88/lb
93% lean ground turkey- $2.12/lb
Boston Butt- $1.49/lb or less
Beef Brisket- $2.30/lb
Eggs- 15 DOZEN for $20
Extra Virgin Olive Oil- $15 for 3L (about 200 Tbsp)
Almond- $8 for 3lbs
Steam in the bag broccoli- $6 for 16 cups
Steam in the bag Normandy blend- $7 for 16 cups

[quote]Zach Rounsaville wrote:

[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:
Hey guys, thinking of starting AD pretty soon here I just have a couple questions.

First, I’m on a pretty tight budget, is all the protein/fat required by this diet a lot more expensive than cheap carbs? I know the weekends will be dirt cheap as I’ll just eat shit tons of rice/pasta etc. but I’m worried about finding more than a few sources of cheap fats/proteins.

Second, what are some of the cheapest foods you guys eat on this diet on the <25g carb days? I’m thinking nuts and tuna w/ mayo are gonna be my cheapest options but are there other good ones?

Last, how did your bodies respond to the 12 day start-up? I’ve heard you feel slow and have no energy by bigger guys, but that you feel just fine by smaller, leaner guy. Anyone have input on this?[/quote]

Try shopping at a Costco or Sam’s club in bulk. This is where I get all of my meat. Also, beef is almost always going to be more expensive than other meats. Example of my staples foods from Sams’:

Boneless Skinless Chicken breast- $1.77/lb
Boneless Skinless Chicken thighs- $1.75/lb
Pork Loin- $1.88/lb
93% lean ground turkey- $2.12/lb
Boston Butt- $1.49/lb or less
Beef Brisket- $2.30/lb
Eggs- 15 DOZEN for $20
Extra Virgin Olive Oil- $15 for 3L (about 200 Tbsp)
Almond- $8 for 3lbs
Steam in the bag broccoli- $6 for 16 cups
Steam in the bag Normandy blend- $7 for 16 cups

[/quote]

DAMN. Strongly considering getting a sams club membership when I come back up to school…

[quote]Mikehr wrote:

After re reading the book I’m gonna do a sat pwo carb up as well the book reccomends 36 hours so 1 night seems like too littel for the supercompensation and anabolic results the doctor describes.
[/quote]

If you really respond that poorly to carbs then 1 day is enough. 600g carbs will be more than enough to replenish glycogen stores.

Then again, you may be able to get away with it considering the gear… Are you saying you gain fat with minimal amounts of carbs even while “on”?

Gentlemen,

I’m reaching the end of my initiation period (12 days at <30g CHO) and am preparing for my first carb-up.

I’m 42 years old, train 2-3 times a week with high intensity and low volume, and am dieting for the purpose of dropping body fat - currently at around 20% (ugh - coming back from a long post-surgery layoff).

So far the diet has been great: I’ve lost at least an inch from my waist, feel a lot harder, and haven’t experienced any loss in strength.

Questions:

  1. Would I be better off doing my carb-up per the “Carb Nite Solution” - i.e. 6-8 hours one night on the weekend - or sticking with the full weekend (~ 36 hours) per the classic Anabolic Diet? I am leaning towards wanting to keep it limited to one night, because I’m at 20% b.f., my goal is fat loss, and I train low-volume. Sound right, or a mistake?

  2. Would I better off keeping the carb-up clean (oats, rice, wholewheat bread) or going crazy (ice cream, cookies, doughnuts, cheesecake…)?

Thanks in advance guys!

Fairbairn