T Nation

An Even Worse Video.

SEATTLE - Two soldiers who just returned from a year in Iraq were badly beaten in an attack outside Pioneer Square. But believe it or not, someone caught the beating on videotape. Now, police are asking for your help identifying the suspects.

http://www.komotv.com/stories/38738.htm

I’m not even going to watch that.

I saw this on our local news tonight. I wanted to puke.

Reading the link you provided, it seems like the police don’t even want to catch the animals that did this.

fuckin people… that shit makes me sick. I hope they catch every person involved in that.

I don’t mean this to sound insensitive, obviously brutal beatings are horrible crimes, these are serious questions.

(1) How well trained are soldiers at handling themselves? I couldn’t get the video to stream clearly, and I don’t know anything about contemporary military close quarter combat training, but somehow in my mind I imagine the world working such that two trained professional soldiers with recent experience would be a solid match for three “civilians”. Am I simply deluded by watching too many action movies? Are soldiers reliant on being fully equipped and having even or better numbers?

(2) Does the fact that these guys are soldiers really factor into the story? Any unprovoked and/or brutal beating is a horrible crime. To me, what would make a crime like this worse than it already is would be if the victims were handicapped, elderly, etc.

Stuff like this really scares me. Here we have groups of kids as young as 11 or 12 swarming people and beating them near death. Like, WTF? Who ever thought that seeing a handful of elementary school kids could one day be perceived as a threat to their life?

I was walking by myself one night in Seattle not all that far from where this beating took place and a twitchy black dude with drool hanging off his chin called me a cracker and told me he was going to beat my ass. Another night a crazy looking homeless white dude walked up to me on an overpass in Seattle and said to me, “Do you want to be buried or cremated, I like to give people a choice.”

I currently consider myself very lucky.

Seriously, what is going on in these people’s heads? How do we prevent this stuff from happening?

[quote]John K wrote:
I don’t mean this to sound insensitive, obviously brutal beatings are horrible crimes, these are serious questions.

(1) How well trained are soldiers at handling themselves? I couldn’t get the video to stream clearly, and I don’t know anything about contemporary military close quarter combat training, but somehow in my mind I imagine the world working such that two trained professional soldiers with recent experience would be a solid match for three “civilians”. Am I simply deluded by watching too many action movies? Are soldiers reliant on being fully equipped and having even or better numbers?[/quote]
Yes, you have been watching too many action movies. Just because someone is a soldier, doesn’t mean that they are trained in hand-to-hand combat. If they are in a support function, they are given minimal hand-to-hand training. When I went through basic-training (as a communications specialist)I think I received about four hours of hand-to-hand.

[quote]
(2) Does the fact that these guys are soldiers really factor into the story? Any unprovoked and/or brutal beating is a horrible crime. To me, what would make a crime like this worse than it already is would be if the victims were handicapped, elderly, etc.[/quote]
The only reason why it matters that these guys are soldiers is that the News Station will get higher ratings for showing their video as opposed to showing a “regular” person’s.

It’s sad, no matter who gets a beating like that…

[quote]riverman826 wrote:
Those three are the best argument for speedy capital punishment I’ve seen.Too bad the police can’t rough them up when they finally get them.[/quote]

Remember Rodney King?

[quote]John K wrote:

(1) How well trained are soldiers at handling themselves? I couldn’t get the video to stream clearly, and I don’t know anything about contemporary military close quarter combat training, but somehow in my mind I imagine the world working such that two trained professional soldiers with recent experience would be a solid match for three “civilians”. Am I simply deluded by watching too many action movies? Are soldiers reliant on being fully equipped and having even or better numbers?

[/quote]
We were given an afternoon of training.

We were told that if the guy got through your mines, your snipers, you’ve thrown all your grenades at him, and fired all your ammo HE IS BETTER THAN YOU. Run.

Anybody familiar with that club? The kind of crowd that hangs out there and if there has every been a major incident there befor.

Why is this thing being made about soldiers returning from Iraq? From what I understand from the video, there were women who where “groped”, a hot dog was thrown, ect. It just seems like any other “bar situation” that degenerated into a fight which became a beating.

The fact that the 2 guys just came back from Iraq seems to have absolutely no bearing on the fight, other than the news station decided to spin it that way.

Rant: Why is it that someone always has a camera to film these things, but no one has a damn cell phone to call the cops and paramedics? Film the guy bleeding to death on the sidewalk, don’t try to help him in any way…

[quote]riverman826 wrote:
Those three are the best argument for speedy capital punishment I’ve seen.Too bad the police can’t rough them up when they finally get them.[/quote]

Send them to Texas, we have an express line to capital punishment.

[quote]Rant: Why is it that someone always has a camera to film these things, but no one has a damn cell phone to call the cops and paramedics? Film the guy bleeding to death on the sidewalk, don’t try to help him in any way…
[/quote]

Trust me they call for the Paramedics – it is just normally after everyone has left. So we show up with no patient to be found! Very frustrating at 3am.

Pioneer Square where this took place is basically 2-3 blocks of bars and clubs all in one area.

During the day it is a tourist area, basically “olde tyme Seattle” with all the old pioneers 19th Century type buildings, by night it is a bunch of drunk partying people and bars. It is also down the hill from what’s called the “International District” of Seattle, which is basically the PC term for Chinatown, which is essentially where the poorer end of the city begins. Basically it’s a few blocks from “the hood” so much as Seattle has one.

I believe that it is the area of town where the police have major presence during such times as Mardis Gras.

When I lived in Seattle I never hung out in that area at night, but people I know that went to check it out were unimpressed with the macho crowd.

So I am guessing the whole neighborhood is a potential powder keg overall.

Other areas in Seattle with a concentration of bars such as Capitol Hill with its mix of goth bars and gay bars and brew pubs and so on do not seem to have this problem from what I observed.

So I would say yes this probably happened in the corner of town where the guys who “give testosterone a bad name” would tend to be found.

[quote]Jersey5150 wrote:
Anybody familiar with that club? The kind of crowd that hangs out there and if there has every been a major incident there befor.

[/quote]

[quote]doogie wrote:

We were told that if the guy got through your mines, your snipers, you’ve thrown all your grenades at him, and fired all your ammo HE IS BETTER THAN YOU. Run.

[/quote]

That may be some of the best advice I’ve seen in a while.

I’d also like to add that as camera phones get better at shooting video, you will see a whole lot more of the videos like this and the previous one. The media may choose to spin it as society getting more depraved and dangerous, but stuff like this has unfortunately always happened and probably always will. People have a harder time ignoring it as just another statistic though when they see it for themselves.
Another thing I noticed was that the camera guy made little effort to be discreet it seemed, and yet the perpetrators made no effort to go after him. They’re brutal thugs AND dumbshits… the human race should be proud.

If I was anywhere near those MOTHERFUCKERS, I would’ve slit there FUCKING throats. The people who DIDN’T HELP are just as guilty as the douchebags who attacked the soldiers.

I’m not even going to GET INTO what I think about the chick who threw the hotdog. I DO despise any man that gropes an unwilling chick though.

[quote]TheSicilian wrote:
If I was anywhere near those MOTHERFUCKERS, I would’ve slit there FUCKING throats. The people who DIDN’T HELP are just as guilty as the douchebags who attacked the soldiers.

I’m not even going to GET INTO what I think about the chick who threw the hotdog. I DO despise any man that gropes an unwilling chick though.[/quote]

i dunno. i hope im never in the situation of witnessing somebody i dont care about getting beaten by thugs. because even though im confident that i could whoop a coupla thugs retarded, i wouldn’t if they had weapons or more friends. so, perhaps, i wouldn’t help due to personal insecurity that i dont want to get maimed or die or some stoopid-ass litigation shit happen to me by protecting somebody i dont consider friend or family.

just hope im never actually in that situation.

[quote]firebug9 wrote:

Send them to Texas, we have an express line to capital punishment.

[/quote]

Don’t send them to California because they’ll either be acquitted or it will take 40 F-N years or longer until they are executed

[quote]John K wrote:
I don’t mean this to sound insensitive, obviously brutal beatings are horrible crimes, these are serious questions.

(1) How well trained are soldiers at handling themselves? I couldn’t get the video to stream clearly, and I don’t know anything about contemporary military close quarter combat training, but somehow in my mind I imagine the world working such that two trained professional soldiers with recent experience would be a solid match for three “civilians”. Am I simply deluded by watching too many action movies? Are soldiers reliant on being fully equipped and having even or better numbers?

[/quote]

There’s also the element of randomness, and the fact that we don’t know how the fight went down. Maybe the soldiers were attacked from behind and never got the chance to defend themselves. Maybe a few lucky punches got through. Who knows. No one’s infallible.

As far as hand to hand combat goes. If you take a 200lb man and pit him against a 150lb man one on one, you can bet that the 200lb man would still have his hands full. Unless of course he is an ultra trained K-1 fighter.

Why would one sub-human thug take the chance of getting his ass whupped when he can have all of his sub-human thug pals join in and thump a couple of guys who only wanted to protect their girlfriends.

The story goes like this:

The two soldiers were out with a couple of lady friends. One of the sub-human thugs was going around and groping women in the bar. The sub-human thug moved his way in and groped one or both of the soldiers girls. One of the girls threw a hot dog at the sub-human thugs who in turn got angry. When soldiers attempted to intervene the whole sub-human thug population in the bar decided to get to whuppin ass. In the street, as the vidio showed, other sub-human thugs joined in and beat and robbed the unconcious and semi-concious soldiers.

This kind of thing goes on all over the World, every day. And it happens alot in the USA. Sub-human beings do sub-human things. Don’t confuse these “men” with animals, as animals don’t know any better. These sub-humans know better they just decide to do bad anyways.

T-Nation, thanks for the forum to rant.

Gotta watch your ass any time a large amount of people and alcohol/drugs is involved. It doesn’t matter what color or what background people are from, you can never win because their friends will jump in too. I never go any where like that any more unless I’ve got some kind of weapon.