T Nation

American Sniper Bulk


#41

BTW, it is ‘with regard to’ and not ‘with regards to’, unless you are sending postcards here on T-Nation

lol. Could also just say.regarding…


#42

I don’t see a problem with the article and will probably get myself in trouble with this but there can be a huge difference between bodybuilder muscle and lean body mass. A lean 200lb bodybuilder can look huge compared to him at 225, but doesn’t mean he didn’t gain 37 lbs of non fat mass. His workout is going to add a lot more core, posterior and lower body muscle then upper body. As far as 4.5 hours his workout doesn’t look like it took that long. The only way I could see that is if he left out his warm up and cardio. He very well may have just meant he spent 4.5 hours at the gym, where with some people your talking about travel, shower and warm up time.

last but not least is his baseline, if he’s body’s set point is somewhere around 200-215 and he had to drop weight for a previous movie, he could probably get up to 210 in a week, and just worry about the last 15 lbs for the next 12 weeks.


#43

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
As far as 4.5 hours his workout doesn’t look like it took that long. The only way I could see that is if he left out his warm up and cardio. He very well may have just meant he spent 4.5 hours at the gym, where with some people your talking about travel, shower and warm up time.[/quote]

People keeping getting caught up on this 4.5 hour our business. The article says:
"…Not only would Walsh train Cooper for up to four hours a day…" That is the only time I see time mentioned at all.

It doesn’t say he trained 4 hours a day. It says he trained up to 4 hours a day. To put it another way, sometimes Cooper trained as much as 4 hours a day. That doesn’t mean he trained 4 hours every single day.

I could see 2-3 hours total time for both workouts he did each day as written in the article. You start adding in warm-ups, cardio, etc… and on occasion I could see 4 hours.


#44

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I don’t see a problem with the article and will probably get myself in trouble with this but there can be a huge difference between bodybuilder muscle and lean body mass. A lean 200lb bodybuilder can look huge compared to him at 225, but doesn’t mean he didn’t gain 37 lbs of non fat mass. His workout is going to add a lot more core, posterior and lower body muscle then upper body. As far as 4.5 hours his workout doesn’t look like it took that long. The only way I could see that is if he left out his warm up and cardio. He very well may have just meant he spent 4.5 hours at the gym, where with some people your talking about travel, shower and warm up time.

last but not least is his baseline, if he’s body’s set point is somewhere around 200-215 and he had to drop weight for a previous movie, he could probably get up to 210 in a week, and just worry about the last 15 lbs for the next 12 weeks.[/quote]

He had a lot of fat on him. If 210 or even 200 is normal fairly lean self then he did a very poor job getting to. 225. If you can’t see a bicep vein or any arm definition at all you’ve gone way too far

Loved the movie respect for all of it. Well done good acting


#45

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Just for fun, lets say he started at, and stayed, 15% body fat. Not unreasonable given his face and the pic above shows virtually no “cuts” (I haven’t seen the movie, maybe he’s lean but I doubt it.). More than likely he actually gained a few percentage body fat points, but I’ll give the article the benefit of the doubt

If he started at 185 @ 15% = 28 pounds of fat

If he ended at 225 @ 15% = 34 pounds of fat

So he gets to gain a “free” 6 pounds of fat to stay at the same body fat percentage. Add the 2 lbs they say he gained on top of it, he’s at 8 pounds of pure fat.

Given that “lean mass” also means things like water, skin, bone, glycogen, etc… lets say thats another ~6-7 pounds.

So he’s at around ~15 pounds of muscle in 12 weeks, ~6 pounds “fat free mass” and 8 pounds of fat… Seems reasonable to me.

If he gained even a few percent body fat (VERY likely) the amount of fat he gained and muscle he gained become easy to attain I think for a new trainee under that kind of supervision and supplementation.

Even going to 18% body fat, thats another 6 pounds of fat (and 6 pounds less of muscle, putting him at under 10 pounds over 12 weeks)[/quote]

Absolutely, all good points. However, we don’t know when those pictures were taken, we don’t know what bf% he started at, and we don’t know what % he ended at. He very well could of started at 16% and ended at 11%. We really don’t know. [/quote]

Dude, he got fat. Let it go. Lonnie’s math seems realistic. 10-ish pounds of actual lean muscle and the rest water and fat. Also, he wasn’t untrained. If anyone here honestly believes he gained 37 pounds of muscle and is at the same bodyfat as before then they’re retarded or need an eye exam.[/quote]

Sorry he is not 15% in the movie. Not close. I’d give him 20


#46

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Sorry he is not 15% in the movie. Not close. I’d give him 20
[/quote]

I actually would too, which makes the total amount of “muscle” he gained even more “realistic,” as it accounts for another 11 pounds of fat gain

I was using 15% at both the weights to illustrate how the numbers would break down in that optimal scenario, which is what the article claimed.


#47

Love that this physique is considered untrained and a fat neck beard 225lbs is a fine goal lol.


#48

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Love that this physique is considered untrained and a fat neck beard 225lbs is a fine goal lol.[/quote]

hash tag full house bro!


#49

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Love that this physique is considered untrained and a fat neck beard 225lbs is a fine goal lol.[/quote]
Lolololol…professor x’s legacy remains


#50

I understand he wasn’t trying to look like a bodybuilder, and it’s cool that he chose Biotest supps to make his “transition,” but I don’t see where he accomplished anything he couldn’t have done lifting on his own and eating " regular food" over maintenance

A personal trainer advising and traveling with him? Arguably $1000 / month in Biotest supps (??) ?

Sorry, IMO not a good example of what Boitest can “do” … Especially given all the other factors he enjoyed that the average gym rat doesn’t have. I don’t see where the weight gain should be celebrated at all, other than the fact that it made him look more like Kyle in overall appearance. And again, he could have done that eating double cheeseburgers and doing a few months of 5x5 …

#notimpressed

…nothing against the movie itself or his acting … Or Biotest…I’m just scratching my head at why he would be the poster child here - outside of the cool factor of an actor using this stuff to intentionally gain weight for a high profile role (in what has turned out to be a very popular movie)

Anyone else think he just looks fatter? Maybe I’m looking at the wrong pics …


#51

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Sorry he is not 15% in the movie. Not close. I’d give him 20
[/quote]

I actually would too, which makes the total amount of “muscle” he gained even more “realistic,” as it accounts for another 11 pounds of fat gain

I was using 15% at both the weights to illustrate how the numbers would break down in that optimal scenario, which is what the article claimed.[/quote]

Means he gained less muscle and more fat?


#52

[quote]Velvet Elvis wrote:
I understand he wasn’t trying to look like a bodybuilder, and it’s cool that he chose Biotest supps to make his “transition,” but I don’t see where he accomplished anything he couldn’t have done lifting on his own and eating " regular food" over maintenance

A personal trainer advising and traveling with him? Arguably $1000 / month in Biotest supps (??) ?

Sorry, IMO not a good example of what Boitest can “do” … Especially given all the other factors he enjoyed that the average gym rat doesn’t have. I don’t see where the weight gain should be celebrated at all, other than the fact that it made him look more like Kyle in overall appearance. And again, he could have done that eating double cheeseburgers and doing a few months of 5x5 …

#notimpressed

…nothing against the movie itself or his acting … Or Biotest…I’m just scratching my head at why he would be the poster child here - outside of the cool factor of an actor using this stuff to intentionally gain weight for a high profile role (in what has turned out to be a very popular movie)

Anyone else think he just looks fatter? Maybe I’m looking at the wrong pics …

[/quote]

Well, he was trying to gain 40 lbs. That was the goal, not a side effect of eating too much. So the fact that he gained fat doesn’t really reflect on the training / supplementation protocol. I mean, if he had gained 25 lbs instead (still a lot) he would be less fat, right? If he gained 15, even more lean.

I see your point about doing 5x5 and eating cheeseburgers, but the question is would he have gained the same amount of muscle. Obviously his trainer and Biotest would say: definitely not. And I don’t think any of us are in a position to say how much he gained, just by looking at pics. The fact is we don’t have good “before” and “after” pics, so trying to judge based on pics is going to be highly subjective and inaccurate. The ones Chris Colluci posted look like a pretty big difference to me, but who knows.

If the article is to be believed – 39 lbs with just a slight bodyfat % increase – that’s pretty impressive (to me), and reflects well on his routine. Dt79 broke the muscle gain down in an earlier post, at 6-9 lbs dry muscle – I would gladly take 9 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks, even if I had to get fat(ter) to do it.

But I suppose I should see the movie and see how muscular he is in it.


#53

[quote]Velvet Elvis wrote:
I understand he wasn’t trying to look like a bodybuilder, and it’s cool that he chose Biotest supps to make his “transition,” but I don’t see where he accomplished anything he couldn’t have done lifting on his own and eating " regular food" over maintenance

A personal trainer advising and traveling with him? Arguably $1000 / month in Biotest supps (??) ?

Sorry, IMO not a good example of what Boitest can “do” … Especially given all the other factors he enjoyed that the average gym rat doesn’t have. I don’t see where the weight gain should be celebrated at all, other than the fact that it made him look more like Kyle in overall appearance. And again, he could have done that eating double cheeseburgers and doing a few months of 5x5 …

#notimpressed

…nothing against the movie itself or his acting … Or Biotest…I’m just scratching my head at why he would be the poster child here - outside of the cool factor of an actor using this stuff to intentionally gain weight for a high profile role (in what has turned out to be a very popular movie)

Anyone else think he just looks fatter? Maybe I’m looking at the wrong pics …

[/quote]

He looks much much better before and looks like he just put on mostly fat. I am sure he will get back to good shape. That was just a gaining phase gone wrong


#54

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Sorry he is not 15% in the movie. Not close. I’d give him 20
[/quote]

I actually would too, which makes the total amount of “muscle” he gained even more “realistic,” as it accounts for another 11 pounds of fat gain

I was using 15% at both the weights to illustrate how the numbers would break down in that optimal scenario, which is what the article claimed.[/quote]

Means he gained less muscle and more fat?[/quote]

Exactly. And I would actually say by quite a bit. I’d be willing to peg him at the 1/2 pounds a week of muscle “limit” that has been bandied about over the years. Gives him about 6 pounds of actual muscle and another maybe 6-8 of “fat free mass” … Then for the rest, well it looks like he chubbed up quite a bit.


#55

[quote]craze9 wrote:

[quote]Velvet Elvis wrote:
I understand he wasn’t trying to look like a bodybuilder, and it’s cool that he chose Biotest supps to make his “transition,” but I don’t see where he accomplished anything he couldn’t have done lifting on his own and eating " regular food" over maintenance

A personal trainer advising and traveling with him? Arguably $1000 / month in Biotest supps (??) ?

Sorry, IMO not a good example of what Boitest can “do” … Especially given all the other factors he enjoyed that the average gym rat doesn’t have. I don’t see where the weight gain should be celebrated at all, other than the fact that it made him look more like Kyle in overall appearance. And again, he could have done that eating double cheeseburgers and doing a few months of 5x5 …

#notimpressed

…nothing against the movie itself or his acting … Or Biotest…I’m just scratching my head at why he would be the poster child here - outside of the cool factor of an actor using this stuff to intentionally gain weight for a high profile role (in what has turned out to be a very popular movie)

Anyone else think he just looks fatter? Maybe I’m looking at the wrong pics …

[/quote]

Well, he was trying to gain 40 lbs. That was the goal, not a side effect of eating too much. So the fact that he gained fat doesn’t really reflect on the training / supplementation protocol. I mean, if he had gained 25 lbs instead (still a lot) he would be less fat, right? If he gained 15, even more lean.

I see your point about doing 5x5 and eating cheeseburgers, but the question is would he have gained the same amount of muscle. Obviously his trainer and Biotest would say: definitely not. And I don’t think any of us are in a position to say how much he gained, just by looking at pics. The fact is we don’t have good “before” and “after” pics, so trying to judge based on pics is going to be highly subjective and inaccurate. The ones Chris Colluci posted look like a pretty big difference to me, but who knows.

If the article is to be believed – 39 lbs with just a slight bodyfat % increase – that’s pretty impressive (to me), and reflects well on his routine. Dt79 broke the muscle gain down in an earlier post, at 6-9 lbs dry muscle – I would gladly take 9 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks, even if I had to get fat(ter) to do it.

But I suppose I should see the movie and see how muscular he is in it.[/quote]

Honestly, even when it’s broken down into such a seemingly attainable figure, I doubt a non beginner can actually gain that amount of muscle in 3 months.

You gotta understand that even with moderate amounts of steroids, building that amount of actual muscle tissue in 3 months would be quite a remarkable feat in itself.

But obviously, your initial plan of trying to gain as much as possible while monitering your bodycomp is sound. Just don’t get too crazy lol.


#56

Anyone have any thoughts on the routine?

Lots of upper back/traps/shoulders. That’s pretty cool.
Pushing weight, moving the body, and loaded carries. Good balance between open/closed chain moves and carrying stuff around.
Custom moves. Lifts that Cooper could do right away without weeks of learning and practicing, like the clean or squat.

Somebody mentioned they might try the routine. Will you do it as written, or do you plan to make some tweaks?

Regarding the specific calculations in this thread; what percent do you think Cooper’s bank account will increase because of this bulk?


#57

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on the routine?

Lots of upper back/traps/shoulders. That’s pretty cool.
Pushing weight, moving the body, and loaded carries. Good balance between open/closed chain moves and carrying stuff around.
Custom moves. Lifts that Cooper could do right away without weeks of learning and practicing, like the clean or squat.
[/quote]

Just kind of looks like a routine to me. Pushing weight, moving the body and loaded carries are definitely good things to be doing in one’s training.


#58

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Velvet Elvis wrote:
I understand he wasn’t trying to look like a bodybuilder, and it’s cool that he chose Biotest supps to make his “transition,” but I don’t see where he accomplished anything he couldn’t have done lifting on his own and eating " regular food" over maintenance

A personal trainer advising and traveling with him? Arguably $1000 / month in Biotest supps (??) ?

Sorry, IMO not a good example of what Boitest can “do” … Especially given all the other factors he enjoyed that the average gym rat doesn’t have. I don’t see where the weight gain should be celebrated at all, other than the fact that it made him look more like Kyle in overall appearance. And again, he could have done that eating double cheeseburgers and doing a few months of 5x5 …

#notimpressed

…nothing against the movie itself or his acting … Or Biotest…I’m just scratching my head at why he would be the poster child here - outside of the cool factor of an actor using this stuff to intentionally gain weight for a high profile role (in what has turned out to be a very popular movie)

Anyone else think he just looks fatter? Maybe I’m looking at the wrong pics …

[/quote]

He looks much much better before and looks like he just put on mostly fat. I am sure he will get back to good shape. That was just a gaining phase gone wrong [/quote]

^ completely agree ^


#59

I think the issue of the supplements here isn’t so much the added weight, but that he was able to train twice daily, and not run himself into the ground while engaging in a pretty intense program. No one really thinks he put on 30-40 lbs of muscle, but as someone who has had a couple of brief periods where I did the 2 a days (in my mid 30’s), it can really take a toll on ya if you don’t cover all of your bases.

S


#60

[quote]dt79 wrote:
Honestly, even when it’s broken down into such a seemingly attainable figure, I doubt a non beginner can actually gain that amount of muscle in 3 months.

You gotta understand that even with moderate amounts of steroids, building that amount of actual muscle tissue in 3 months would be quite a remarkable feat in itself.

But obviously, your initial plan of trying to gain as much as possible while monitering your bodycomp is sound. Just don’t get too crazy lol.[/quote]

The question to me is even if we accept 1/2 lb of muscle / week as the maximum, how easy / hard is that to attain? I.e., will doing 5x5 and eating cheeseburgers still get you there?

In other words, does the elaborate program in the article, of lifting 2x / day, pounding expensive supplements nonstop, etc., make a substantial difference? And is the difference big enough to make it worth it, given the increased time/effort/money?