T Nation

Am I Overtraining My Shoulders?


#1

I just start to lift weight 3 months ago, at the start, my body look like the skiny guy with small arm and leg and a lot of fat in my belly (weight 54kg at the start).
after 3 months, I can see the gain in my bicep , chest , back , and tricep, but that's seem my shoulder doesn't grow much.
my shoulder day is something like :

over head press 15 reps / 4 sets
behind neck over head press 15 reps / 4 sets
DB late rise side : 12 reps / 4 sets
DB font rise : 12 reps / 4 sets
Rear delt DB fly : 15 reps / 4 sets

I use 30 kg for all exercise (15 kg / side for all dumbbell exercise) , and I do every exercise with the rule : 2 sec up, and 4 sec down

Does I am over training my shoulder ? they seem doesn't grow much. my font shoulder still very flat. I can see 3 group of shoulder muscle when I rise my hand but when I relax, they look nothing in there.
Does I need to change any thing in my shoulder workout ?
I want my shoulder muscle grow faster and bigger.

Diet : I eat 120g protein per 2500 calories per day - My weight is 67kg and height is 168cm


#2

2 seconds up and 4 seconds down on every exercise ???
Where did you get this idea from?

An overhead press should explode up and be controlled down.
Slow negatives are a different story and coaches like Charles Poliquin swear by them but it's not for every single exercise.

Also no point using the same weight on all exercises.
With overhead pressing such as Military Press or Push Press the idea is to gain strength so ramping is often a better way. No need to be so rigid.

For someone who has only been lifting for 3 months you don't really need to do 5 different exercises at 4 sets each.
I'd cut out behind the neck press and front raises.
3 working sets is plenty and no need to do 15 reps for OHP. Use the OHP to build strength so work in the 5-8 range.


#3

x2 everything Angus said. He touched on all the key points already.

Whatever you've been doing for three months hasn't given you decent results, so why would you not try changing something?

But I'm not going to suggest specifics until I see what the rest of your training week looks like. What days, exercises, sets, and reps are you doing?

More protein. Shoot for at least 1 gram per pound of bodyweight.


#4

@Agus 1: thank you. I think I will cut my workout now, some pro said with me that compound exerice like OHP make my shoulder grow much more than another exercise , so that why I always do them in high reps. but I must keep my strength to do another exercises, so I use the same weight for all exercise, the weight that I can keep for 5 exercise. I think now when I cut my workout and lower my reps (OHP), I will increase some weight. The last time I try, I can lift around 80lbs for (OHP) / 6 reps / 3 set, but after that I can not do another exercise because I'm too tired.

@Chris Colucci :
my weekly routine is look like:
1 - Chest day :
bench press (15/4) supper set with Pec Desk fly (15/4)
Dips for low chest (8/3) supper set with Decline presses (8/3)
Incline Press for upper chest (12/4) supper set with Incline DB Fly (15/4)

Push up (failure/3)
Abs for 5 minutes.

2 - Back day :
Chin - up (failure/3) - close hand
back lat put down (12/4)
lat put down (15/3)
Seated rows (15/4)
One arm DB row (15/4)

Abs for 5 minutes
I'm walking in the rest time between 2 sets

3 - Leg day :
- Dead lift (10/4)
- Squats (10/4) super set with One leg Toe raise(15/4)
- Back extensions (15/4) super set with Leg Presses (12/4) (too tired after that supper set)

4 - Shoulder day :
- same as #1 post

5 - Arm day :
- Curls (15/4) super set with One arm triceps extensions (15/4)
- hammer Curls(15/4) super set with Triceps extensions (12/4)
- Preacher Curls (12/3) super set with Push down (12/3)

  • Wrist curls (15/4) supper set with Reverse Wrist curls (15/4)

6 - 2 hours morning walking with emty stomach (5km/h)
7 - Rest

and about adding 30g protein in my diet, should I remove some carb or fat ? to avoid too much fat gain ? because 30 protein will add around 120 calories.


#5

Argh.

More constructively: I do not like ANYTHING about this.


#6

If I was you I would drop this program immediately.

Take a few days off then start all over again on a more basic program.

You are seeing some improvement but that is what is known as newbie gains. Anyone who starts out lifting will see some type of improvement no matter what they do but in your case it will be short lived. You see you are doing an advanced type of program that isn't suited to your level of training. Not only that the rep ranges look ridiculous to me. 15 reps for bench press doesn't make much sense. 10 reps for deadlifts!!! Just stop before you hurt yourself.

It appears that you don't have much understanding of training so I would suggest you do a lot of reading of this website. Focus on gaining strength in basic lifts first before worrying too much about cramming more and more exercises into a program. Get good at fewer exercises and you will gain strength and size all over without imbalances.

Ideally though I would recommend that you follow a ready made program. There are literally hundreds to choose from but you would be best served by either a full body 3 times per week or a 2 way split. Upper / Lower or Push / Pull.

Do a search on here and you should get quiet a few come up.


#7

OP,

Over-training = not real

under-eating/under-sleeping = very real


#8

Thank you again Angus1 @_@
I take this routine from my friend and stick in that program when I see the first gain in my chest after the first month @_@ I just think "it's work".
here is the new workout routine, should I change anything ?
I will follow the new workout next few days after take the rest.

WEEK 1 :

Day 1 - upper body
Bench presses - 8~10 reps / 4 sets
Incline Bench Press - 12 reps / 3 sets
Dips - failure / 2 sets
lat put down - 10 reps / 3 sets
rows - 8 reps / 4 sets
Curls : 12 reps / 4 sets
(should I add some foream exercise in there ? my foream is weak)

Day 2 - rest

Day 3 - Lower body
Squats - 8 reps / 4 sets
Deadlift - 8 reps / 4 sets
Leg presses - 12 reps / 4 sets
Seated Calf Raise - 12 reps / 4 sets
Stand one leg calf raise - 12 reps / 4 sets
(should I adding abs exercise in there ?)

Day 4 - rest

Day 5 - repeat day 1

Day 6 - rest
Day 7 - rest

and the WEEK 2 will start and finish with day 3

I don't know that the workout above is bad. My chest and arm still gain some size (and my weight is adding rapid - maybe because I eat more than when I sit and chatting all day)

one more question about diet :
I'm adding around 12kg in my weight after 3 months although I calculator that 2500 calories per day is enough to gain a little of fat and slow gain of weight (gain 2kg of weight per month). Should I cut down my calories from fat and carb now ? or I just keep that calories to "bulk" ? my Hip gain size too fast (adding 7cm) and I can not wear my pants anymore (I bought the new pants a week ago)


#9

I slept 7 hours everynight, and I think that's enough (because I will get up after 7h of slept, If I sleps at 0h, I will get up at 7 o'clock tomorow @@ I don't know why), and I will take a short rest in the 12h AM too (12h to 13h)
I read some page said that I must sleep 8-10 hours everynight @_@ do you have any tip to help me sleep more in night ?

don't worry, I change it now


#10

Your new workout looks just as bad as the last one.
Here's a GOOD one for your situation:

Monday
Squats, 3x5-8
Bench Press, 3x5-8
Barbell Row, 3x5-8

Wednesday
Deadlifts, 3x5-8
Barbell Overhead Press, 3x5-8
weighted Chin Ups, 3x5-8

Friday
Same as Monday

The next week would be Deadlifts-OHP-Chins on Monday. So you train three times a week, always doing the workout you did not do the last time. The point is to use heavier weight Whenever you can = get stronger. This (and eating enough to gain weight) will make you grow muscle right now, nothing else.

Best wishes,
Someone who once looked like you.


#11

X2


#12

x2. Do this.


#13

Gaining that much (about 2 and 3/4 inches for us non-metric people) around the waist in three months is a bit of a concern. I'd keep your total calories about the same but reduce the carbs a bit, substituting in more protein. That's the simplest way to keep fat gain in check.

It could also be your food choices. What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

Also, the routine Nighthawkz just posted is much better than the new one you put up. You'll be better of focusing on a few basic big lifts, instead of doing 3 or 4 exercises per bodypart and worrying about your forearms.


#14

oh @@, I will try this. That's mean I just need to do 3 big exercises per day and 3 days week ? How long does I need to keep that workout ? 1 year ? does I need to change it again every 8 week ?

My food that I take yesterday
I take a workout in the morning

Pre-workout :
1 scoop whey - 100 calories - 25g protein
2 banana - 240 calories - 60g carb

Post-workout :
1 scoop whey - 100 calories - 25g protein
1 banana - 120 calories - 30g carb (there is easy to find cheap banana)

Total : 580 calories - 50g protein - 90g carb

Meal 1
- 100g of lean beef - 25g protein - 142 calories
- 2 slice of bread - 40g carb - 160 calories
- 1 mutivitamine
- 220ml milk - 6g protein - 130 calories
- 2 tpsb oil - 240 calories
Total : 31g protein - 40g carb - 670 calories

Meal 2
- 200gr of fresh tuna (2 slices, I bought 11 slices is 1,2kg) - 50g protein
- boiled rice - 40g carb
- oil to fried fish (2 tpsb) - if I too lazy, I will make the green fish soup with vegetable below, and doesn't count this oil - 240 calories
- boiled green vegetable (almost no calories alot of fiber)
total : 50g protein - 40g carb - 600 calories

Meal 3 (night)
- 100g chicken - 20g protein (boiled chicken and I use fish sauce with some chili and garlic)
- boiled rice - 40g carb
- boiled green vegetable (I eat the leaf of sweet potato, or spinach, or malabar , or any kind of leaf, easy to find them with cheap price in there - I think there is the good source of fiber)
Total : 20g protein - 40g carb - 250 calories

snack : some slices of frozen coconut rice (because they contain 33g fat / 100g, so I limit them, just some slices) - 200 calories

Before bed
1 banana - 120 calories - 30g carb
1 scoop whey - 100 calories - 25g protein
Total : 25g protein - 220 calories

Total : 151g protein - 210g carb ~~ 2500 calories

btw, after change all my workout, my feeling right now :expressionless:


#15

At least eight weeks, yes. Start with a weight that you could lift for eight if you had to but only do five; add more reps every time you go to the gym. Once you can do 3x8 without failing, add five pounds. If you eat enough (I think you may need more carbs and protein), this will take you very far. Once you've done this for two to three months, ask again.

It is CRUCIAL that you try to lift more than you did the last time. If you don't, you probably haven't had enough food and/or sleep; these two are really important.


#16

Can I add 1 or 2 day walking in the morning to the rest day ? Before I start lift weight I sit too much (my work), and bad situation cause my low back pain, and when I walking, the pain gone, and my low back doesn't pain for a week. But walking is the cardio ? this exercise doesn't good for me in this time if I want to gain muscle ?


#17

You can walk as much as you want. IF you did it for hours each day, though, you'd have to eat more to make up for it.


#18

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/get_ripped_get_walking


#19

ok, I will do it tomorow :slight_smile: as I calculator 1 hour of walking just burn around 190 calories :smiley: I can add 1~2 scoop of whey for it (or take some slice of coconut rice :D)

wow ... @@ I don't know that walking can burn more fat @@ I just think it's good for my low back pain @@ thank you about that link, I have a lot of fat in my belly too,

Just think that I can burn all of them and then wear my pant again ... but 200 calories / hours ... and I must burn 7500 calories to lose 2,2lbs of fat ... a long way to go ...


#20

Hi all, In the first day, when I do bench, my wirst hurt alot, I think I can bench more than 120lbs, but when I add the weight more than 100lbs, my wirst hurt. Can I replace bench with another exercise ?

I think the weight that I can lift in OHP is over 120lbs too, but I have a back pain when I was trying to lift the bar from the floor, can I use the DB instead the bar ?