T Nation

Am I Jacked Up?


#1

Gentlemen,

I need to know if I’m in a downward spiral and what to do about it.

Long story short;

Always been on the average thicker side but strong. Big shoulders type. Played Highschool football, was a linemen and started working out at 13 in school.

For some reason growing up I never really gave a shit or perhaps I didn’t understand the importance of protein intake until later in life when I got serious about the gym.

During my time in the corps I got serious about the gym and Always did it naturally.

Still wasn’t understanding protein and diet.

When I got out I became a contractor giving me a lot of time in the Gym’s of Iraq & Afghanistan.

I usually stayed at 230lbs 5’10"
But still only decently strong

It wasn’t until 2009 I really exploded.

I was hitting the gym for a full two hours a day because I had the time and on base there ain’t shit else to do.

Worked out hard in 2009. Full year on a natural regament. Finally got knowledge about about 1.5 grams of protein per lb. lower carbs, higher fats and about 250 grams of protein a day.

My weakness has always been chest and my strength legs back bi’s

After that good routine my numbers looked like this:

5’10"
225 lbs
16% BF
33" waist (I’m a big winde dude)

My PR’s were

115lb Dumbells on bench (230lbs total)
Squats: 315
Bench: 300
Standing curl: 120 (45 plates)
Deadlift: 315

It wasn’t until 2012 that I was with some non American SF guys that I took my first cycle (200mg) a WEEK (low I know) of Test E.

It was a short 8 seeker and honestly I didn’t feel different except maybe I recovered faster. But that’s the whole point right?

While taking this first cycle I started Shortcut to Shred while ramping my protein through the roof, eating vegetables and watching my carbs and sugars with every Sunday being a cheat day and day of rest.

I finally had some PR’s I was proud of but my bench is still weak.

Bench: 315
Squat: 455
Deadlift: 415 (that was enough)
Curls: 135

Point is I had some size. Very broad chest etc.

Since then, I started a new business 3 years ago and have been consumed by the endeavor. Haven’t really hit the gym since I left the sandbox.

I went up to 250lbs

Didn’t really look bad just big. Got asked if I played rugby a lot.

Here’s the whole reason I joined and made a profile.

I don’t know shit about cycles. I’ve heard 100 people say 100 different things and everyone is a bloody expert but knows zip.

Over the past 24 month I took two half ass cycles that I’m ashamed to admit. I stoppped one half way through because I never made it to the gym because of the business.

Both cycles were Test E one for 10 weeks and one for 6 about 4 months apart and both low 200mg per week.

And yes, all cycles no PCT

Now The business is taking off, just got married and back in the gym for 5 weeks.

My bench is back up to 225 X 10 X 4 so strength is ok and I’m. Building it back up

My main issue is I’m huge now. Which is expected and weight is already starting to drop. I’m at my heaviest ever of 275. Shits crazy

My XL’s are stupid tight but manageable.

Here are my questions;

  1. Did I Fuck myself up with those idiot incorrect cycles?
    Sex is fine, I can tell my test is a little low but need to check blood work.

  2. I have Test P. Should I take it correctly with Apex to get my levels back and what my Estrogen?

I’ve never taken a PCT because I was never instructed on its value until I started reading your forums and now I’m feeling pretty stupid.

So how do I fix this problem the right way?

What should my next step be exactly?

My main goal is to drop 50lbs of fat. I haven’t ran since the Corps but do enjoy the heavy lifting. I would like to lift heavy and get lean over time.

I just need your help or advice please.

Shoud I cycle up the right way or wait?

And what is the correct way during and post cycle for anti estrogens

Sorry this is long guys but I figured the back story might help.


#2

Pretty sure you will have better luck with this in the Pharma section.


#3

This is the pharma section…


#4

He originally posted it in the bodybuilding section :grin: I thought he might have better luck here.


#5

First things first. Semper Fi, brother!

Thats a long ass story. I skimmed through and wanted to hit the important stuff.

The Test E cycle you ran at 200mg a week is low. That is on the higher end of TRT levels. For example, when I cruise on Test E between cycles I use 250mg per week. That keeps my T levels high but not too high so my body can recover from a cycle. The other problem I see is the length of your cycles. Enanthate is a long ester so it stays in the system for a long time and has a long half life. Its a good thing because you don’t have to pin as often as a short ester…BUT it takes the longer esters longer to get into the system and for you to “feel them”. Depending on the person it could take 4-6 weeks for people to actually get the effects of Test E. So of you start getting the effects in 4 then your 10 week cycle becomes a 6 weekish cycle. So it is short as hell. Longer esters like enanthate need to be ran for a longer period of time. After your last shot you aren’t off of a cycle until the half life of whatever you are using is gone.
Make sure you have something on hand for estrogen no matter how low or crazy your cycle is. Estrogen can cause you to hold fat and give wonderful gyno boobs. Arimidex should do just fine for that.

People will argue if you should start a cycle now or wait until you lose some BF%. That is totally up to you. If you are going to run test, I’d definitely run a higher dosage so you get benefits from it.


#6

Got it. Thanks man! should definitely have more luck in pharma


#7

appreciate the Forum Change Gents. I’m the FNG at this time.

Hey, Semper Fi Brother.

Alright cool. So I’m not really jacked up right? I mean I literally took low low dosages that probably didn’t stop anything. That is good to know. Do you think I should get blood work done just to check levels regardless to know before decision making? I’ve never had all of them checked.

I’m all about doing it the right way. But these forums are the only place to find out Legit knowledge of the do’s and don’ts. I appreciate the insight.

So RECAP, I need to get on a longer cycle and bump it up to about 550mg a week?

Then, what do people mean by take the PCT or Arimidex 40/40/30/30/20. Will you explain that Devil? I’m like WTF does that mean?

I really want to get this right and get down to 205 lbs. I’m feeling hella unhealthy right now. Plus running my business I need to maintain a sharp image and I’m too big right now.

another question: I’d rather just stick with T. Should I do E, P, C? Which would be best and how long of the cycle should I run?


#8

The only way to know if your ‘jacked up’ is to run blood work. Administering Test in any amount is going to shut down your natural production for a period of time. That’s why they are telling you to go higher on the Test because your stated levels will put you higher than natural but not by that much with all the side effects.

It sounds though as if you recovered unless you are having side effects like fatigue, brain fog, impotence, sexual etc. Since you are a big guy that has affinity for putting weight on it would seem normal that the stress of a new job and not working out would blow you up in weight.


#9

your knowledge about what you’re doing is astonishingly minimal. There are so many things that need to be addressed, because pretty much everything you think you know is wrong. blshaw’s post corrected most of your more obvious misconceptions.

1 thing that annoyed the hell out of me reading through your post is your constant description of yourself as ‘a big guy, wide, broad, etc’. There’s a difference between being fat and big, at least in my opinion, and given how weak you are and how heavy, you’re the former. If you want to make positive changes in yourself, the first step is being honest with yourself.

OK, so first off. I’ll agree with the other posters on the cycles you ran. They were essentially at the level many TRT patients take, which means the cycles were probably actually worse than not running anything at all. While you were running your ‘cycle’, the exogenous testosterone essentially replaced your pre-existing testosterone, but since the amount was so low, it likely didn’t take you to a level outside of what falls in the ‘normal/normal-high’ range. Any cycle will shut your HPTA system. So when you came off the steroids, your level fell far below noral range while your HPTA recovered. So at the end of the day, you never had high levels of testosterone, and you ALSO had to deal with the recovery period of low levels. You would have legitimately been better off not taking anything.

Second: Unless your test levels are EXTREMELY low now, or you’re hypersensitive to changes in your body, you can’t ‘tell your test is a little low’. That’s utter garbage. Stop thinking that way. That’s like people who think they can ‘tell they have high/low sperm count’. It’s utter nonsense.

Third: Test P would do exactly the OPPOSITE of what you said you want it to do in your initial post. It’s going to do exactly what Test E did, which was shut your HPTA down while you were on cycle. The only difference between E and P is that you have to pin P more frequently. I’m pretty sure that’s not what you’re going for.

You don’t have even a basic comprehension of AI’s and PCT. I have no intention of spoon-feeding you this information, because it would take forever to explain, and there are so many good resources available on this forum to read through and learn. Start reading, and stop asking questions until you’ve got a basic handle on this stuff. You’ve been lazy to this point. It’s time to grow up and start educating yourself man. Stop being stupid.

Don’t run another cycle anytime soon. You can lose the weight without it, easily. Go on a fucking diet man. It’s not that hard. Relying on drugs just to get to a ‘normal’ bodyweight is a poor choice. If you actually decide to dedicate yourself in the future to achieving goals that are beyond what normal people are able to do, then that’s when you start considering steroids. Not before. Don’t use steroids to reach ‘average’.

I’ve been harsh here, but I’ve also been completely honest, and hopefully helpful. Your call how you deal with it.


#10

I actually appreciate being straight forward. I agree completely that I don’t know, which is why I made a profile in the first place.

I’m all about dieting. Dieting is the simple part except that when it comes to my macros it has me up in the 3200 cal range which seems excessive.

I’ve been on here for less then 24 hours and combing through the beginner forums.

I just wanted to know if A) the previous cycles were crippling and B) where a good starting point was.

I do sincerely appreciate all the criticism.

Thanks Bud.


#11

Glad you’re willing to be receptive.

Your previous cycles almost certainly won’t have any discernible long term effects. It will be impossible for you to be sure if you returned to your previous test levels, because you did not get bloodwork prior to using steroids. At this point, bloodwork is still useful, and I would absolutely recommend it to make sure you’re at least within normal levels. You can go through your doctor if you have good insurance, OR for about 100 bucks you can go to a site like PrivateMDlabs and purchase a bloodwork panel there. I recommend the comprehensive women’s panel, because it includes estradiol. You go on the site, purchase a panel, then you take the paperwork they issue to a local facility (facilities are listed on their website) and have the blood drawn. in about a week they email you the results. quick, easy, and you get to avoid talking to your dr about it. You can post your results here if you need help interpreting them.


#12

Roger that. On it. Thanks bro


#13

I appreciate the weigh in brother.

So yes, I took 2.5 years off due to the juggling of the workload and the Wedding shit.

I mean I worked out here and there but no regiment.

I’ve been natural all my life until 3 years ago and I dabbled in low dosage listening to people that probably didn’t know shit about shit.

I just found it odd that after 2.5 years out of the gym I never really passed 250 lbs. I’d get back out to the sandbox and get hardcore with no distractions and get back to 225-230

It seemed like a year ago i started my second low cycle of E and jumped up to 260, worked out as much as I could when I could and hit 270.

Usually I swell up before I start shedding pounds and thought this was extreme but normal.

I finished the cycle and moved up to 278

I was like WTF.

So then I started thinking about all the PCT questions and estrogen levels.

Sex only slightly down, no headaches, stress up, always tired but that’s normal in a start up.

Anyway, yes Bloodwork. We’ll start there.

I know I’m ignorant about Gear. That’s why I’m here. Need the truth.

Thanks Guys


#14

Dude, your weight changes don’t have anything to do with your workouts. It’s seriously all about diet. Your cycle did not push you up to 278, your diet did. I’ve run cycles and lost weight, I’ve run cycles and gained weight. It’s all about how you manipulate your diet.