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Am I Consuming Too Much BCAA's?

i’m currently using RFL (Rapid Fat Loss by Lyle Mcdonald) to diet down for the past 1.5 weeks. i read the book, and the author suggested that BCAA’s and even some dextrose (Gatorade) could be consumed prior to a workout if needed. however, i don’t remember him saying anything about consuming BCAA’s throughout the day to stave off muscle catabolism.

i know that BCAA’s are calorie-free, however if they aren’t used as a source of energy, don’t they get converted to glycogen?

i usually consume 3 scoops of Humapro (~15g BCAA’s) during my workout and have been sipping on 10g of GNC Rapiddrive BCAA’s as needed between meals. i just had a free meal last friday night (unintentionally about a week ahead of schedule), and though i think i’m looking better in the mirror almost on a daily basis, the scale’s been kind of stuck on 197-198 lb. also, some of my lifts are going up. depending on the movement, i’ve had to cut volume down to 1/3-1/5 of what i was doing pre-RFL but i’ve managed to add weight to some exercises.

When you run a PSMF you are going to get some amino acid to glocogen conversion whether you supplement with BCAAs or not. I think your Hemapro will just bring more of the amino acids you want to the party.

I am sure a much smarter person will come along and say for sure though.

if you consumed some type of fat with the bcaas (fish oil, cheese, olive oil, etc.) would that not spare the bcaas?

[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
if you consumed some type of fat with the bcaas (fish oil, cheese, olive oil, etc.) would that not spare the bcaas? [/quote]

it’s not a question of sparing the bcaa’s, it’s a question of the bcaa’s being converted to glycogen that is possibly slowing/stalling my weight loss.

it’s a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) so only your body weight in grams of protein is consumed, no carbs, no fat.

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
if you consumed some type of fat with the bcaas (fish oil, cheese, olive oil, etc.) would that not spare the bcaas? [/quote]

it’s not a question of sparing the bcaa’s, it’s a question of the bcaa’s being converted to glycogen that is possibly slowing/stalling my weight loss.

it’s a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) so only your body weight in grams of protein is consumed, no carbs, no fat.
[/quote]

I meant that the fat would be used instead of the bcaas. I think i remember modok posting about taking fat with protein would stop protein from being converted to glycogen (on a low carb diet). But if you cant have fat then thats a different story.

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
i’m currently using RFL (Rapid Fat Loss by Lyle Mcdonald) to diet down for the past 1.5 weeks. i read the book, and the author suggested that BCAA’s and even some dextrose (Gatorade) could be consumed prior to a workout if needed. however, i don’t remember him saying anything about consuming BCAA’s throughout the day to stave off muscle catabolism.
[/quote]

The book says…

“Your call, I donâ??t think most of it is necessary with the levels of protein intakes Iâ??m suggesting but they are all workable and may have a small benefit for the very lean.”

Is this your first time doing it? If not would be interested in how results compared

Thanks

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
it’s a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) so only your body weight in grams of protein is consumed, no carbs, no fat.
[/quote]

6g of fish oil is included I thought

[quote]plateau wrote:

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
it’s a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) so only your body weight in grams of protein is consumed, no carbs, no fat.
[/quote]

6g of fish oil is included I thought[/quote]

yes, sorry otherwise no non-essential dietary fat is to be consumed.

thanks for digging up that line. I had a feeling I missed something somewhere.

having done both three-a-days and conventional caloric restriction/pulse feasts/pulse fasts for 14 weeks and RFL for almost 2, I’d say for me it’s a wash and dependent more on how much do I want to eat, how much cardio I want to do, how much I want to improve my conditioning and how badly I need a deload.

dieting conventionally, you still get to eat but depending on your level of leanness and your goal, you might have to put a LOT of load on your joints and time working out. with RFL, food requirements are less, training volume goes down out of necessity which is good if you need the rest, bad if you’d like to improve conditioning.

RFL is great in terms of just waking up the next day and feeling and looking drier and leaner than the previous day and for really next to no physical effort. however not eating sucks =(

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]plateau wrote:

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
it’s a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) so only your body weight in grams of protein is consumed, no carbs, no fat.
[/quote]

6g of fish oil is included I thought[/quote]

yes, sorry otherwise no non-essential dietary fat is to be consumed.

thanks for digging up that line. I had a feeling I missed something somewhere.

having done both three-a-days and conventional caloric restriction/pulse feasts/pulse fasts for 14 weeks and RFL for almost 2, I’d say for me it’s a wash and dependent more on how much do I want to eat, how much cardio I want to do, how much I want to improve my conditioning and how badly I need a deload.

dieting conventionally, you still get to eat but depending on your level of leanness and your goal, you might have to put a LOT of load on your joints and time working out. with RFL, food requirements are less, training volume goes down out of necessity which is good if you need the rest, bad if you’d like to improve conditioning.

RFL is great in terms of just waking up the next day and feeling and looking drier and leaner than the previous day and for really next to no physical effort. however not eating sucks =([/quote]

Thanks man, I had planned to end my current cut with it.

yea it’s not a bad idea to end a period of conventional dieting with it. that’ll put you into a bigger caloric deficit than anything else you could do. also I don’t think muscle wasting will be a big deal because your level of activity goes way down anyway.

good luck with it! and stock up on your non-starchy veggies and BCAA’s beforehand.

Rather have Bcaa’s used for energy during your workout than muscle? I’m pretty sure the diet you’re on causes you to be almost fasted when you workout? Not 100% sure tho. I say use the Bcaa’s around your workout. 1 Scoop prior, 1 scoop during and 1 scoop after instead of 3 scoops during. In my opinion of course.

[quote]Mike T. wrote:
Rather have Bcaa’s used for energy during your workout than muscle? I’m pretty sure the diet you’re on causes you to be almost fasted when you workout? Not 100% sure tho. I say use the Bcaa’s around your workout. 1 Scoop prior, 1 scoop during and 1 scoop after instead of 3 scoops during. In my opinion of course.[/quote]

thanks for the reply. on another forum, MODOK replied that consuming the extra BCAA’s between meals was likely just an expensive source of energy and that I shouldn’t go for too long between whole food protein sources, or risk running short on certain neurotransmitters. that much was obvious when I get lightheaded, lethargic and unable to think clearly.

BBB also advised to take a shot of protein and a carb source before my workout to cause an insulin spike and protect my muscles during the workout. Lyle McDonald does allow for a carb source before working out even while on RFL, preferably from sugars like the dextrose in Gatorade.

as for the 15g of EAA’s, I sip the drink throughout the session and take another 10g upon finishing the session unless I already have food ready to eat at home.

[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
if you consumed some type of fat with the bcaas (fish oil, cheese, olive oil, etc.) would that not spare the bcaas? [/quote]

it’s not a question of sparing the bcaa’s, it’s a question of the bcaa’s being converted to glycogen that is possibly slowing/stalling my weight loss.

it’s a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) so only your body weight in grams of protein is consumed, no carbs, no fat.
[/quote]

I meant that the fat would be used instead of the bcaas. I think i remember modok posting about taking fat with protein would stop protein from being converted to glycogen (on a low carb diet). But if you cant have fat then thats a different story.
[/quote]

I recall this as well. In fact, another trainer recently advised me the same.

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]Mike T. wrote:
Rather have Bcaa’s used for energy during your workout than muscle? I’m pretty sure the diet you’re on causes you to be almost fasted when you workout? Not 100% sure tho. I say use the Bcaa’s around your workout. 1 Scoop prior, 1 scoop during and 1 scoop after instead of 3 scoops during. In my opinion of course.[/quote]

thanks for the reply. on another forum, MODOK replied that consuming the extra BCAA’s between meals was likely just an expensive source of energy and that I shouldn’t go for too long between whole food protein sources, or risk running short on certain neurotransmitters. that much was obvious when I get lightheaded, lethargic and unable to think clearly.

BBB also advised to take a shot of protein and a carb source before my workout to cause an insulin spike and protect my muscles during the workout. Lyle McDonald does allow for a carb source before working out even while on RFL, preferably from sugars like the dextrose in Gatorade.

as for the 15g of EAA’s, I sip the drink throughout the session and take another 10g upon finishing the session unless I already have food ready to eat at home.[/quote]

No problem, but I was trying to answer it in terms of what you were doing, not what I personally do or would suggest.

I would definitely listen to Modok and BBB. It’s similar to the way I do things. I personally don’t use dextrose at all, once in a blue moon. Most of my carbs come pre, during and post workout and come from whole foods. I couldn’t imagine going into the gym with only BCAA’s.

As far as BCAA’s between meals go, I for example, eat breakfast, 30 minutes later take in 10 grams, 30 minutes later eat again. Avoids using them(bcaa) as energy and should create a higher protein synthesis effect. Also, I have found 15 grams leucine, 7 grams L-valine, and 7grams Lisoeucine to be amazing for recovery. Personal experience of course.

Ohhh, Fish oil is a must… Just saying