T Nation

Am I Being Realistic?

Every time I bulk, I end up looking like shit. And it’s a pain in the ass to lose all the excess bodyfat later. Is it reasonable to expect adding 10 pounds of muscle over the upcoming winter, without losing any deffinition? I’m talking about 4 months of training, all compound exercises, upping my calories but eating clean (I made a habit of it), doing one or two cycles of Primo, Winny, Anavar, Clen, something to that effect.

Right now, I’m at 175 pounds, at 5’11’’. Take a look at my thread on RMP, it’s quite obvious that I’ll be prioritizing my lower body. But I still want to be lean.

Can it happen? What would you recommend for me to do when it comes to training? Cardio or no? I currently run about 2-3 times a week. What about the juice? I’d really like to avoid the acne and the “mood swings”, which is why I’d prefer something mostly anabolic.

What is it with the fascination of not gaining a little fat when trying to add muscle?

You could add 10lbs over a 4 month period, but on a “clean bulk” (read:not enough food) you’d probably barely get over your caloric maintenance, which means you are basically slowing down your potential progress a hell of a lot.

Also I’m not sure if Primo/Winny/Anavar are good muscle adding compounds, but if you would seriously put yourself and a restricted bulk while taking AAS then you need to re-assess you logic.

What is your definition of “looking like shit”? I mean, do you lose your abs and think, “oh my god I’ve gained too much fat!!!1!!”?

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
What is it with the fascination of not gaining a little fat when trying to add muscle?[/quote]

What is this facination with bulking? Is it the most effective way to gain muscle? Yes. Should you do it if you want to be lean all the time? No.

It is a personal choice that depends on your goals and insecurities.

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
What is your definition of “looking like shit”? I mean, do you lose your abs and think, “oh my god I’ve gained too much fat!!!1!!”?[/quote]

Guilty as charged.

Look, I’m tiny. I used to bulk up to 200 pounds (from 160) when I was younger, and I was neither big nor cut. Some shoulders, a prominent butt and love handles. For me, that’s shit. All I got to show for it was some muscle and a whole lot of stretch marks.

Also… Why not clean bulk plus AAS? Wouldn’t that result in quality gains? What am I missing?

I missed this. Very true.

[quote]John Q. Adequate wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
What is your definition of “looking like shit”? I mean, do you lose your abs and think, “oh my god I’ve gained too much fat!!!1!!”?

Guilty as charged.

Look, I’m tiny. I used to bulk up to 200 pounds (from 160) when I was younger, and I was neither big nor cut. Some shoulders, a prominent butt and love handles. For me, that’s shit. All I got to show for it was some muscle and a whole lot of stretch marks.

Also… Why not clean bulk plus AAS? Wouldn’t that result in quality gains? What am I missing?[/quote]

I don’t want to be an ass, but don’t you maybe want to get to a decent size drug-free so that you actually learn to get your training and eating right, how to bulk properly and what things actually matter if one wants to get big?

If you’re on several compounds and have trouble/don’t know if you can gain 10 measly pounds in 4 months (at your level, at least), then chances are that you may just want to max out your training and diet first before playing with certain substances (and judging from the responses of the other posters, you may want to learn a little more about aas, too).

Again, I don’t mean to offend you.
Good luck with getting bigger/stronger.

You could easily add 10lbs to each leg in half that time. Don’t worry about AAS. Just eat more, but very clean, and bust your butt on squats and deadlifts. The hormonal release will take care of fat control while it builds your legs (and everything else) up.

How much strength do you gain on your bulks?
Did I read it right that you ganed 10lb of predominantly fat in 4 months while apparently eating ‘clean’ and doing AAS?

You have been lifting for 7 years and weigh 175 pounds, so steroids are definitely not the solution.

You said that on your earlier bulk you went from 160 to 200. Bulking doesn’t have to mean increasing your bm by freaking 25 pct in a short time span.

You already like to eat clean, so try increasing the amount of clean food you eat by something like 500 cals at first and see how that goes. And I’d change up the lift program as well, as you may be stuck in a rut.

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
You have been lifting for 7 years and weigh 175 pounds, so steroids are definitely not the solution.

You said that on your earlier bulk you went from 160 to 200. Bulking doesn’t have to mean increasing your bm by freaking 25 pct in a short time span.

You already like to eat clean, so try increasing the amount of clean food you eat by something like 500 cals at first and see how that goes. And I’d change up the lift program as well, as you may be stuck in a rut.[/quote]

I’m kinda curious as to what his program looks like…

And his protein intake.

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
You have been lifting for 7 years and weigh 175 pounds, so steroids are definitely not the solution.

You said that on your earlier bulk you went from 160 to 200. Bulking doesn’t have to mean increasing your bm by freaking 25 pct in a short time span.

You already like to eat clean, so try increasing the amount of clean food you eat by something like 500 cals at first and see how that goes. And I’d change up the lift program as well, as you may be stuck in a rut.[/quote]

Nail on the head right here.

You don’t need to go to Burger King and gorge to gain quality weight. Typically, the ideal weight gaining range and ratio of fat to muscle should be about 2:1.

For every 2 pounds of muscle you add, it’s normal and healthy to put on around a pound of fat. It’s the nature of the beast; you won’t look bad at all adding on a few pounds.

I switched off my bodybuilding program in favor of 3-4 different full body routines. They were chock full of combination lifts like squats, deadlifts, presses, rows, and assistance exercises with a couple isolation for bi’s, tri’s, and forearms. Right now it’s the best of all worlds.

Best part is, I actually eat cleaner than ever even with my busy school schedule. chitown34 is right, just add more healthy foods into your diet. Add a little more carbs during the day, add more veggies overall, throw in some more fish/flax oil, and up the protein at night.

Before bed, have a quality Casein (I used Syntha 6 here) and in the morning, get a good Whey protein in you (I used Nature’s Best Isopure).

One last word on training, hit all the rep ranges. If you did reps of 12-10 across the board one day, do 8-6 next time. Keep it interesting, and lift heavy with your legs. You don’t need steroids now with small adjustments here and there.

Good luck.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
…[/quote]

No offense taken. Although for me, it’s about looking good, not getting big. Consider that I was 125 pounds when I started lifting.

[quote]Kruiser wrote:
You could easily add 10lbs to each leg in half that time. [/quote]

That would be marvelous!

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
How much strength do you gain on your bulks?
Did I read it right that you ganed 10lb of predominantly fat in 4 months while apparently eating ‘clean’ and doing AAS? [/quote]

No. 10 pounds of muscle in 4 months is my goal over the upcoming winter.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

I’m kinda curious as to what his program looks like…

And his protein intake.[/quote]

Right now?

I train:

Monday, upper legs and abs. I start of with stiff leg deadlifts, 3 sets of 10-9-8. This is my set/rep scheme for all exercises except abs. I move on to leg curls, and finish off with squats. I squat 300 pounds for the last 8 reps.

I might throw in some leg extensions to finish off the quads. Ab work is done as I feel like, generally leg raises and crunches at 20-30 reps.

Tuesday, calves and running. I do toe raises with a loaded bar on my back.

Wednesday, back and arms. I start off with deadlifts, again 3 sets of 10-9-8 as I do with everything. 300 pounds for the last set. Next, I do bent over barbell rows, then it’s one arm dumbbell rows.

I move on to biceps, barbell curls, then alternating hammer curls with dumbbells. For triceps, I do either dips or scull crushers, then follow up with kickbacks or overhead extensions.

Thursday, again calves and running. I do the seated calf machine, load up that bitch at the usual set/rep combo.

Friday, it’s chest and shoulders. Incline presses (180 pounds for that last set of 8), incline dumbbell flyes, then flat dumbbell presses or close grip bench. For shoulders, it’s upright rows, then lateral raises, then bent over laterals.

Saturday, more calves and running. I do one legged dumbbell toe raises for the lower legs.

Sunday is off.

I eat the same every day, except that I add more carbs when I start to feel sluggish and weak (once a week to be sure).

Meal one is muesli and milk, maybe 150 grams plus 200 ml of skim milk.

Meal 2 is an hour and a half later, 4 raw eggs, drank.

Meal 3 is a can of tuna (170 grams nett) in water plus 40 grams of almonds or 100 grams of pasta.

Meal 4 is either 300 grams of beef, or 200 grams of chicken, plus some sort of vegetable, be it white rice, or cooked potato, or a mix of chopped carrot, paprika, peas. Those vegetables amount to maybe 200 grams total.

Meal 5 is post workout, 2 fruit yoghurts (400 grams) plus 2 bananas.

Meal six, if I have the discipline, is either 80 grams of sardines plus 50 grams of cottage cheese, or 50 grams of ham and cheese, or similar. If I’m starving, I just might eat some pizza or ice cream. This sort of cheating typically happens once or twice a week. I don’t (can’t) go to bed and not eat. Sleeping won’t happen.

I don’t calculate my calorie nor protein intake. I go by memory and feel.

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
You have been lifting for 7 years and weigh 175 pounds, so steroids are definitely not the solution.

You said that on your earlier bulk you went from 160 to 200. Bulking doesn’t have to mean increasing your bm by freaking 25 pct in a short time span.

You already like to eat clean, so try increasing the amount of clean food you eat by something like 500 cals at first and see how that goes. And I’d change up the lift program as well, as you may be stuck in a rut.[/quote]

My bulk up looked like this: I trained each bodypart once a week, for an hour and a half, six days a week. I ate EVERYTHING in sight, six meals a day. I took Omnadren, at 500mg per week, Deca at 200mg per week and Methandrostenolon at 25mg a day.

I gained 20 pounds of muscle and 20 pounds of fat, approximately.

Your advice is solid. Thanks.

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
What is it with the fascination of not gaining a little fat when trying to add muscle?

You could add 10lbs over a 4 month period, but on a “clean bulk” (read:not enough food) you’d probably barely get over your caloric maintenance, which means you are basically slowing down your potential progress a hell of a lot.

Also I’m not sure if Primo/Winny/Anavar are good muscle adding compounds, but if you would seriously put yourself and a restricted bulk while taking AAS then you need to re-assess you logic.

What is your definition of “looking like shit”? I mean, do you lose your abs and think, “oh my god I’ve gained too much fat!!!1!!”?[/quote]

I would like to ditto this in bold, along with making the font size 24. In rainbow colors. Combined with what Chitown said.

[quote]thefranchise_86 wrote:
…You don’t need steroids now with small adjustments here and there.

Good luck.[/quote]

Again, great advice. I sure hope that I can do it naturally, though I kind of doubt it. I’d just like to add something to enable proper protein synthesis and to help recovery. Also, something to ensure that I keep burning fat.

[quote]John Q. Adequate wrote:
thefranchise_86 wrote:
…You don’t need steroids now with small adjustments here and there.

Good luck.

Again, great advice. I sure hope that I can do it naturally, though I kind of doubt it. I’d just like to add something to enable proper protein synthesis and to help recovery. Also, something to ensure that I keep burning fat.[/quote]

I think you can ~ you just have to tweak your diet.

[quote]kinein wrote:

I think you can ~ you just have to tweak your diet. [/quote]

Any advice?