T Nation

Alternative to Euphoria

I’m one of those nasty people you hear about that likes a few beers at the weekend. Right now though I’m on a cutting cycle with no cheats (not even 1 beer). The worst thing about this is that most social environments (even a BBQ) have people drinking alcohol. Now discipline is not an issue for me and I can stay true to my path, but my social life has gone down the pan since I have real trouble socialising when drinking water or diet coke and conversing with people who’ve had a few beers, which gets progressively worse as the night goes on. The end result is that I have to avoid these environments which means staying in every weekend (boo hoo!).

I had high hopes for Euphoria, but it doesn’t look like it’ll ever make it to market, so my question is: Does anybody know of an alternative chill/feel good concoction, or have any recipies for creating my own drink or capsule?

Valarian root, when I take it I can’t get out of bed for 12 hours. And if I’m awake, I kinda, just stare at the wall. Plus, the sleep is great, before I started taking it again (I only take it a few times a month) I couldn’t remember any of my dreams when I woke up. Now, it seems like I have a very good balance of REM and deeper sleep. I’m not sure why this is, but I have talked to others who have experienced the same. As far as getting you in a good mood, St. Johns wart and Kava kava seem to do a pretty good job. And if all else fails you can always jerk to some porn. Let me know how it works out.

Kava-Kava and 5-HTP are a great combo if you want to unwind a little. Solaray makes a product with exactly these two ingredients. One of my roommates is an extremely high-stress individual who also happens to abstain from alcohol. I turned him on to Kava and he loves the stuff. It has a nice mellowing effect, and usually induces sleep after a few hours. You won’t get hammered off of the stuff, though. You might want to check it out.

One could try gamma valerolactone. This
was a substance I looked at with the idea
of being a possible formulation for Euphoria.
I thought it worked quite well as a relaxant.
Others however felt that if it didn’t fully
match up to GHB that it wasn’t worth doing.

As it happened, the colleague I was working
with on this, not to my knowledge actually
asked the owner of another supplement company (!!!) to make the purchase of GVL for him. Talk about non-discreet. So the result is
that another supplement company does sell it.

Disadvantages to GVL include a severe taste
problem that cannot be fixed (the best you can do, and absolutely should, is to dilute
the GVL into water say 10:1 and do NOT drink undiluted GVL) and a druation of action that is longer than probably desired. E.g., at least 12 hours, depending on dose. In case of overdose the duration of action can be days.

By the way, if going the GVL route, I would
buy the material from one of the chemical
suppliers that will sell to individuals, rather than from a supplement company.

Unlike what Biotest would have done had the GVL project been found worth doing, namely using the more expensive food grade GVL, the supplement company GVL is simply the same material as you’d buy from a chemical supplier, just repackaged and marked up several times. So there’s no reason not to just buy it without the middleman. (And in this case, it’s a particularly offensive middleman that just out of principle I wouldn’t buy from.)

The dose I found effective was about 9 mL.

If I’m on a cutting cycle, I can’t drink, period. Too risky - as in possible hangovers. Even from one or two beers. And that sucks. So, I will still go to social events, but just have maybe one glass of wine.

It just takes getting used to. And after competing for several years and realizing your life should not end just because you're competing in a contest, you still go out and enjoy the world. Of course, this changes 3-4 weeks out. And it's not like I go out EVERY weekend, too.

But how I love beer. That's the hardest thing to drop while in pre-contest.

I cant find any chemical supply store online that sells it. What am I doing wrong? Do I search under a specific chemical name, or just use gamma valerolactone as the lookup name. I am curious to find an alternative to alcohol, not that I drink much anyway, but at social functions it is nice to have a good buzz and not be worried about decreased T-levels.

Bill without being too forward, can you give us any hints on who would sell GVL?

Bill, can you elaborate on Gama valerolactone and how, or if, it is similar to Gama butyrolactone? Obviously they sound similar but that is about as far as my chemistry expertise goes :slight_smile: Do they work in a similar manner, or on a similar part of the body? How different do they feel, I’ve used GBL and GHB for workout recovery(before bed) and as an alternative to alcohol, so is it just a more mild version? Thanks in advance.

How does GVL feel in comparion to GHB? Ive done allot of GHB in years past, but never tried the GVL. Do you get the same feel-good effect off of it? Does it really last for 12 hours? Still cant find it on any search engine for order.

If any one finds a supplier of this could they please post it. I am having some trouble finding one. A while back Doug Kalman mentioned “elephants head” in issue 196 Did any one have luck locating that one?

GVL does not feel anything like GHB or GBL. Those make you feel much more intoxication. GVL feels kinda like a muscle relaxant (but not really like xanax or valium from my experience) but does seem to last for awhile. Much longer that GHB or GBL. Not as fun, but legal. Im not a big fan personally. Of course I did try the marked up chemical grade version Bill refered to. Maybe food grade would be better. I still have half the bottle left from over 5 months ago.

It’s been, I don’t know, at least a year I’d
think since my experimentation with GVL. The company that supplied the material then is not in business now.

However, a Google search for:

“gamma valerolactone” kosher

gives a company I would try. I expect
there are other suppliers as well, omitting “kosher” from the search, if this
company will not sell to individuals, as might
be the case. (I hope this company will not be flooded with requests now…)

My colleague pointed out to me a J Med Chem article (which I should have known about myself but as it happened I didn’t) reporting that gamma-hydroxyvalerate (GHV) binds to the GHB receptor and shows GHB-like activity. He wished for me to make GHV for him but I declined since I felt it could be considered to be a designer drug, being an analogue to GHB which at that time was Schedule I, drugs of which schedule you cannot legally make derivatives or analogues of with the same activity. (I believe GHB has since been reclassified as Schedule III, making it acceptable to produce analogues or derivatives with the same activity.)

However I reasoned that most likely the lactone (GVL) would serve as a prodrug
to the hydroxycarboxylic acid (GHV) in the same manner that GBL does to GHB and suggested that this be tried. It worked.

The rate of conversion appears limited and
so it cannot achieve the same depth of effect that GHB can. In my own case it is able to be a strong relaxant, but cannot produce a state that one might call “stoned.”

And yes, as I said, it does have a long duration of action.

And I wasn’t kidding that overdose can
result in a duration of action of days:
by mistake I experienced this myself. (I
was aware beforehand that GVL had been proven
safe even in quite large amounts and this apparently led me to be less careful regarding dosing than
I ordinarily would be, and I wound up making
a quite stupid mistake, taking very many times the intended dose. The duration of effect was I think three days.)

While no one else at Biotest was enthused
about the use of it as a relaxant supplement product, personally I thought the effect could be ideal for, say, stressed-out soccer moms to take in the morning so as to be mellowed out during the day, and the effect wearing off in the evening. However, I did have concerns about abuse potential so actually there was no one who really thought we ought to go ahead with it (either because of thinking it was not good enough, which was everyone else’s opinion, or this concern, which was my opinion.)

Wheeler, I don’t know how GVL feels, thats part of what I was asking Bill. But I do know that if you type gamma valerolactone into the google.com search engine you will get plenty of hits. It looks like GVL can be converted to GHV(gamma hydroxyvalerate) with methanol(Don’t ask me how this works because I read it somewhere else and I know very little about chemistry) and once its in vivo it converts to GHB. Thats probably why its milder than GHB itself; because it has to convert in the body. Don’t take my word for it though since this source was some halfassed study saying that GHB causes physical withdrawl symptoms, and is highly addictive, which is complete bullshit. I also noticed that cigarettes seem to have GHV added to their products, hmmm… You can find GLV listed as a chemical that the FDA allows people to add to food. It also seems to be a popular flavoring agent in different products. It seems Sigma-Aldrich even has a kosher certificate for it! I guess Bill was quite thorough when he considered this for Brock’s euphoria product :slight_smile: kidding!

I read recently that Kava Kava can be hard on the liver. The article then went on to warn against “excessive use” and combining with alchohol.

I wouldn’t expect food-grade to give any stronger effect. I just meant, why not save money and get as-good or better grade product directly at much less cost, since they’re available, if one is going to use GVL.

So if GHB is now sched III and you can make it’s precursors, what does that mean as far as possession and sale of things like GBL. Can you possess it legally? If I go down to Mexico and buy some is that illegal?

Bill, or anyone who’s tried it, what do you think about 4-pentanolide?

Bill, thanks for the info, my browser didn’t reload with your post up when I wrote my last post. This stuff sounds great, but is the only effective dose, one that lasts 12 hours? In other words can you get it to last maybe 7-8 hours or would the dosage be too low, and never really kick in?

Okay - Maybe my head has been up my ass too long - but is the “Euphoria” product dead?