Almost 2 Months on Clomid + Aromasin

Im not sure you understand. Physiologik is an Endocrinologist, a body builder, and a steroid user. He has 100s of clients that he coaches on and off the BB stage through varying amounts of steroids and also TRT guys. When he says “Oh. My. God” I would listen to him. He knows his shit.

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Definitely not your typical endocrinologist, one of the few well educated ones.

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@NH_Watts @enackers
I believe the theory of no Ai is only about 4 months old, it is only supported/pushed by about 6 guys on this forum and it is not a global phenomena or revelation and as far as I can tell the jury is still out.
No one has had time to drop their AI and then get new bloods and report their findings and how they feel.

nakeroxxi had reported he has high E2 symptoms you guys keep reading right over that. An he has reported when he takes his AI his symptoms go away. That is what AI’s do when taken correctly.

quoted:
Hi NH_Watts, as I said, after I take the aromasin every sympton of high E2 dissapears, find counterproductive stop taking it.

@nakeroxxi I have no experience with aromasin but I take anastrozole regularly when my E2 get in the high 30’s. My SHGB runs 24-29 and I feel my best when my E2 is 22-30 anything higher and I lose libido and have issues staying hard during sex.
I believe guys with high SHGB can tolerate a lot higher E2 than guys with normal to low. That is why the one E2 to rule them all of 22 is not good advice.
If you have access to anastrozole I’d give that a try. It is very strong I would not take more that .25mg/wk and see if that works for you. good luck

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This is what my doctor says about taking an AI. He does not hide his real name face or business.

Honestly it would be nice if you even read my post because I said none of that.

Third time in a short span you’ve done this. Did you read what physiolo and unreal said!

Hard to convo with you if that’s going to be a normal trend. You know me. I’m jsut being honest and not trying to stir the pot.

——//——
I really hope you can see that folks are suggesting no ai when someone starts there treatment. Only after severa criteria are met should one start. He’s on chlomid. I don’t know much about it, but I do know it kicks the system into over drive. His levels aren’t crazy high. Wa she having e2 symptoms when he was younger at these levels? It’s not like he’s taking cypionate.

Dr.Saya is a good doc, but a poor example: how many men have come here with low e2. They are put on TRT and given ai without considering there e2 is already low. I see it way too often. Folks are having entire posts saying this is crazy. Even guys on an ai… he gives everyone an ai to cover his ass… which is fine but say “wait a couple weeks to start”… he doesn’t even consider “let him stabalize and see if the sides go away or if he even has any”…

Dude I am my popppng ai like candy. Look at my levels … my clinic wanted me to… I didn’t… I’m a perfect example or why one should not start with an ai.

How many guys come here trying to control e2… without becoming stable enough to realize the sides might just go away.

So no I’m not saying don’t take an ai: read my post.

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Thanks man, that makes sense, I have exaclty the same symptoms at same levels you said. I tried aromasin because its much cheaper. But read anastrozole works very good aswell. I guess you take a serm also right hrdlvn, if so which dose have worked for you?

OK lets bust up your post above and you tell me where I miss interpreted what you wrote.

Stop reading his posts he left a year ago. Everything has changed. NO it hasen’t T mono has been around for years and all the trouble it brought is why AI are here now

His beliefs and suggestions have helped many but hurt many as well. Only when the took too much and crashed their E2 That is not the AI’s fault.

New information had come to light and there’s plenty of info backing up that ai should be taken as a final resort. Most of us take an AI because we want to run a higher T dose then we really need. Allmost all trying to run at the top of the Free T range, for strength, energy, alertness, libido will need and AI.

Higher Estrogen (level without sides) will not hurt you. Everyone had different estrogen thresholds. Thsi is the issue if you truely have high E2 you will have bad side effect. A 35 for you might not be high but for me I have sides

The whole reason behind not taking an ai is to a avoid the nonsense your going through. He has bad side effects from high E2 he said he did and he took an AI and they went away

Alternatively your never going to get stable if your always trying to figure out ife2 is too high or low. Many of us have no issue and can stabilize our E2 with an AI. Its just not a problem for most of us.

That’s why I decided not to take ai when I started. I instead look at my dose for answers. Healthy lean is also a goal. This is great for you and I hope it works out. If it does then is the time to start preaching how no AI on a low T dose worked for you. Until then you are only posting what other have said and have they done any testing? or is their info bro-science also.

Why not stop worry about labido for a couple months and find a dose that doesn’t give you sides: it’s not like labido is going to disappear and never come back. NO libido and a limp dick are the side of HIGH E2 you can’t say don’t take an AI unless you have side then say the exact opposite.

Plenty of guys say they feel so much better after stopping the estrogen control and dialing in there dose. Please provide the links to all these posts you reference.

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Ok

I’m simply trying to help him think outside the box. He has issues with ai. He has a symptoms and automatically says it’s high e2. Yet the guys above said these could be chlomid or the side effects of the ai itself.

I’m not on a low dose. Look at my labs.

This isn’t bro science. I trust my doc he was on these meds himself and he believed in the range of 20-30 being sweet spot. He got off and found he was ok.

He says none of his patients take an ai. I trust the man. He cares for woman and now cares for men. He has a thorough and holistic view on the human system and male:female hormones … it’s not one sided towards male hormones.

Almost none of the men on ais were given the option to try trt without. Most likely they don’t even know if they need an ai. The argument is flawed. What steps did these men who need an ai take to end up in an ai dose? Probably zero. They were given an ai along with test and said have a great life.why? Because docs thought estrogen caused harm. Heart attacks and etc. now they know this is not true. Therefore try it without an ai and only use an ai when it’s the final option. Sounds good to me. I don’t want to be taking that shit for life.

Its really pretty simple. You and NH have not been at this very long. Neither of you have your own protocols figured out yet. Watching a single TOT video and reading a few posts isn’t very much experience to be offering advice like you’ve been at this for years.
Get your own protocol working. Do some experiments to see what is the lowest T lvl you can run without and AI and are you happy with your strength, energy, alertness, libido at that level? Most of us aren’t hell the very guy/doc pushing this T mono crap cycles (uses T recreationally to grow muscles) when I blast(a guy on TRT who cycles) I don’t take an AI I let my E2 run high to protect my joints ((( but that is only for 10-12 weeks ))) When I come down, to TRT lvls, I hit the AI hard because the sides from a high E2 (35 for me) with normal T SUCKS.

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Man i dont have issues with the AI, i think you didnt read me at all, i have problems with E2( SIDES OF HIGH ESTROGEN), I think you already know which sides are. The sides of low estrogen(correlated with too much AI), are waaay different, i think you know that. So I would listen to hrdlvn my friend.

The cool thing about the forum is you can choose to listen to who you want to. Please keep us posted on your progress.

Also, for what it’s worth check out Dr. Rouzier’s presentation to doctors at a conference. You can choose for yourself what to do but you should be given information from both sides. Just remember that estrogen can take a while to stabilize in the body. Cheers.

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I agree thanks watts.

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Soon enough these guys bitching about e2 will be thought of as the same docs talking about cholesterol being bad with zero studies. show me a human study that implicates high e with normal t as harmful or bad in any way. Ohhhh wait. THERE ISNT ONE.what you can find are studies linking low e to a number of awful health outcomes as well as low shbg linked to early mortality.

@NH_Watts thanks for reposting that video. Or google Serrano. Those of us that actually work with athletes as well. Everyone from soccer
Moms to NFL players.

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Dr Serrano?About Us: Online Personal Training and Supplements

Yea, that’s him. Eric Serrano

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Whats up guys, I have been out of the country but finally got new labs. So this is my HPTA restart situation now:

I was tappering out the Clomid very slowly (also I have found that I am a hyper responder to Clomid and might be the reason behind all these excess estrogen), so I went from 12.5mg EOD to 6.25mg EOD to E3D to 3mg E3D. Each dose change once the week was over. I decided to tapper that slow because even at the 6.25 E3D I felt like producing too much testosterone (leading to E2).

So this are my labs 3 days after the last Clomid dose of 3mg:

-Total T: 765 (249-836)

-E2: 14.55 (10-52)

-LH: 11.37 (1.5-9.3)

-FSH: 9.58 (1.4-18.1)

-Prolactin: 8.56 (2.1-17.7)

-Cortisol: 15.60 (4.82-19.5)

-TSH: 1.38 (0.35-5.50)

-fT4: 1.56 (0.78-1.8)

-HDL: 42 (<45)

-LDL: 121 (<160)

They forgot SHBG free T, T3…

Notes:
-HDL/LDL ratio worsen a bit because I ve been traveling for work and not eating very healty ( and the medicines I ve been taking of course)
-Testosterone keep raising more with the low dose clomid. Also I need less of the AI to stay cool, but still need it (thats something i cant wait to get rid of, expensive as f*ck and honestly i dont want to be taking more pills and have normal life in that aspect.

So yeah thats it, next labs im gonna take will be 1 month completly out of everything and see if it keeps holding.
Note that still taking a little of the AI to protect the HPTA for any rebound for about 2 weeks and also to not feel bad.

Feeling good now guys I willl keep you updated!