T Nation

Almost 2 Months on Clomid + Aromasin

Hi guys, firstable I have to say that its a pleasure being in this forum, you guys are helping each other more than a lot of doctors out there.

So, I found myself in a position of low T, dont know why, I ve never been on gear, also Im 22, healthy diet, sleep well and practice sports regulary. But yeah, It was all over the past of the years very imperceptible but one day I said, that enough, something is wrong so after lots of researches I ended up testing T, E2 and so on:

-Total T: 284 (Ref 164 - 763) btw you guys already know how shitty this lab ranges are
-Free T: 61.97 pg/ml (Ref 54.7 - 190.63)
-E2: 10.71 pg/ml (Ref 10 - 52)
-LH: 5.60 (Ref 1.5 - 9.3)
-FSH: 6.83 (Ref 1.4 - 18.1)
-SHBG: 24.40 (Ref 13 - 71)
-TSH: 3.06 (Ref 0.35 - 5.50) I’ d say 4 its hipotiroidism
-T3 (free): 3.35 (Ref 2 - 4.40)
-T4 (free): 1.40 (Ref 0.78 - 1.8)
-Vit D3: 25.43 (Ref >20)
-HDL cholesterol: 54 (Ref >45)
-LDL choresterol: 95 (Ref <160)

  • Zinc: good
    -magnesium: good

So as you can se the T was not optimal and after trying all these natural ways and seeing no significant raises on T, I started 25mg Clomid EOD and se if the thing was with the hypothalamus.
It seems im very receptive to Clomid because within the first 2 days I felt in-cre-di-ble. I never felt so good i thought it was not human, maybe a gorilla, but during that week I first experimented the aromatization, mood begun to change, everything… So I added aromasin, almost none are the beginning (3mg E3D)
The month was about to finish and I thought maybe was good idea lower the Clomid dose to 12.5 EOD, because i felt like more aromasin were required to keep me on a good mental state.

So here things get interesting,
this are the test with 25mg Clomid EOD almost the entire month:

-Total T: 646 (Ref 164 - 753)
-Free T: 157.41 (Ref 54.7 - 190.63)
-E2: 37 (Ref 10 - 52) I knew it was going to be high, I felt it
-LH: 7.06 (Ref 1.5 - 9.3)
-FSH: 8 (Ref 1.4 - 18.1)
-SHBG: 26.60 (Ref 13 - 71)
-Prolactin: 9.79 (Ref 2.1 - 17.7)
-TSH: 0.85 (Ref 0.35 - 5.50) it has dropped a lot
-T3 (free): 3.65 (Ref 2 - 4.40)
-T4 (free): 1.52 (Ref 0.78 - 1.8)
-HDL: 47 (Ref >45) Now I have to eat even more eggs and avocados haha
-LDL: 65 (Ref <160)
-Vit D3: 28.50 (Ref >20)
-Zinc: good
-Magnesium: good

So this was my last lab work and Im about to take a new one.
Felt amazing, Energy through the hole day, need less time for sleep, balls double size, erections of steel and libido like crazy, also almost everytime E2 under control.
What I notice it’s that in the morning take places my aromatization cuz it’s were i need to take most of the aromasin and my balls don’t look big anymore for about 3-4hours in which I recover.
Do you guys know what’s happening? If I’m correct or why it’s extactly that happening.

What I want to say it’s that I dropped the Clomid dose even more to 1day 12.5mg and 2 days off. The reason it’s because, need to take now a lot of aromasin, every 3-5hours, to keep myself up, it’s crazy I’m talking almost 20mg some days. I cut the pill in like 7-8 pieces, take one and see my body’s reaction and recovery from the high E2 symptoms(no libido, I will say brain fog or depression I don’t know but that don’t feel good. I’m glad I know my body well so I can do this with the aromasin, I only crashed E2 once (little stress and some back pain) but I recovered the day after. And thank to that I know if I’m getting near or I’m way far to that point.

So yeah thats all my journey so far. Any recommendations of what should I do means a lot to me, so yeah, thank you all guys you are amazing!

What’s your question.

You have such a low e2. How do you decide it’s high e2. Gut feeling? Bro test! Your just going to create more harm than good operating like this.

Crashing e2 is not having a 1 day recovery .

Bro i think 37 is high (sweet point on 22) and in this case numbers dont lie i remember the mood at 37 was not very ideal.

My questions basically are if you think its a good idea in my situation to reduce the SERM, and how should I do it, taken 12,5mg every 2 days as now or maybe even 6,25mg EOD?

Another question i have is that if someone taking clomid have had the same massive aromatization during the early morning, it feel like my body convert too much at that specific time

Thanks😊

Oooooooooooooooo, aaaaaaaaaaaaa, (imagine someone really drawing out oooos and aaaaaaaas like a long sigh)

facepalllllmmmmmmm

@physioLojik

Dr Sir chek this out

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The half life of aromasin (exemestane) is roughly 24 hrs… Missing a dose won’t have much of an impact, any response you’re having is purely placebo (and I can say this with confidence).

Estrogen almost certainly isn’t the culprit of you’re symptoms here. Clomiphene on the other hand can cause these symptoms.

You’re testicular size isn’t changing either, the only time testicular size changes (aside from pharmacological intervention) is during or right before sexual stimulation (god DAMN I’m so horny these days…)

KSman hasn’t been on here for about a year

HDL is fine, LDL is amazing, you’re HDL/LDL ratio is great! If you want higher HDL… Stop… Taking… The… Aromasin…

You’re problem (whatever symptoms you’re feeling) may be mediated from clomiphene use (zuclomiphene mediated I’d assume), though I’m not particularly well versed of the effects of SERMS on neurotransmitters. Or you could simply have a deficiency/imbalance of certain neurotransmitters (think serotonin, dopamine) tyrosine increases dopamine if you’re interested in trying it (tyrosine—arrow L DOPA ----arrow dopamine)

Placebo is a powerful enemy, and the AI use may very well be causing you’re problems. E2 “sweet spot” of 22 is a crock of shit. There’s always a ratio of T-E2, this ratio is the appropriate ratio so long as you have normal conversion and clearance pathways (largely mediated by hepatic function)… I can guarantee you don’t have aromatase excess synsrome… So get off the AI…

Edit: exemestane not aromasin

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My. Good. God.

Exemestane Has destroyed you. Stop using it for 6 weeks. Immediately.

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Whoopsie got letrozole and exemestane mixed up…

Extreme rookie mistake on my behalf lolz

Thank you for your answer, but I can confirm is not placebo, the mood and the erections don’t lie, because immediately after taking aromasin/exemestrane it goes away, feel good again and insane erections again. What kinda worry me is that I need to take a lot of aromasin (6mg every 3-5h) lately. Is that normal?

I Tryied to stay without aromasin but definitely I can’t survive long without it. So the only option left I think is lower SERM dose, and see if I will need less to none of aromasin. I ll let you know how things progress.

By the way, anyone knows the reason of the massive drop in TSH(from 3 to 0.85)?

@nakeroxxi The above quoted post is from a doctor of endocrinology. Take heed.

There’s no such thing as normal when it comes to AI dosing, I take 1/10 aromasin and lose erections almost immediately. We have over-responders and those on the opposite end of the spectrum.

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Thanks a lot mate.

Also KSman said:« E2=36 is a problem, too high. Anastrozole/aromasin help reduce T–>E2 in peripheral tissue but cannot control T–>E2 that occurs in the testes wich can be high with higher doses of SERMs»

So maybe its my case. I will slowly drop the dose and have lab work again.

Hi NH_Watts, as I said, after I take the aromasin every sympton of high E2 dissapears, find counterproductive stop taking it. The last endo I visited told me I had no low T for my age(250 before) :joy:

Stop reading his posts he left a year ago. Everything has changed. His beliefs and suggestions have helped many but hurt many as well. New information had come to light and there’s plenty of info backing up that ai should be taken as a final resort. Higher Estrogen (level without sides) will not hurt you. Everyone had different estrogen thresholds.

The whole reason behind not taking an ai is to a avoid the nonsense your going through. Alternatively your never going to get stable if your always trying to figure out ife2 is too high or low. That’s why I decided not to take ai when I started. I instead look at my dose for answers. Healthy lean is also a goal.

Why not stop worry about labido for a couple months and find a dose that doesn’t give you sides: it’s not like labido is going to disappear and never come back.

Plenty of guys say they feel so much better after stopping the estrogen control and dialing in there dose.

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If our answers do not jive with you; then your better off going to another forum where they still preach protocols from 2015. Otherwise your just going to keep getting push back and it’s a waste of your time and others…

Even our resident physical told you to stop it. There’s no better suggestion here than pjysiolks

For decades people have been focusing on Total T numbers without regard for Free T numbers, no one is even asking about Free estrogen numbers which will be drastically different depending on SHBG levels.

Free hormones are what matter and the higher the SHBG, the lower the free hormones. Some men have stated they feel like crap when estrogen is below 35 pg/mL, also take into account everyone processes androgens differently at the receptor sites.

A person with highly sensitive receptors may need less androgens and someone with low sensitivity will need a higher amount of androgens.

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You are right Enackers, everyone has different estrogen thresholds and if you are not feeling any side effects of high E2, even if you have 50 or more, you just dont need an AI.
Im just saying its not my case and in my case I have tested that I feel much much better when Im between 15-30 E2.
I have stopped with the aromasin one time for about 3 days and I felt the worst. Its just not what my body needs at this moment (and I mean with these doses of SERM). Of course I will try to reduce it as much as possible with the followed drops of Clomid.

Btw im curious enackers, are you also taking SERMs? I d love to know the experiences of other people in this journey and see how they do it.

Thats right what matters its the free T, but never thought about testing my free estrogens, can I? If so i will definetly. My SHBG in 25 means that not high amount of testosterone or estrogen is been adhered to SHBG(?)(Ranges 13-71) so looks good right

Your Free E2 score will be unique to you since we have ignored Free E2 in testing for decades, no one knows the normal range for Free E2.

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