All About Bench/Squat/DL Shirts

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

People are made differently depending on your tendon insertions fiber type etc… You come to lift born with these differences. How are you to say how a bench shirt effects different people.

[/quote]

That’s just genetics. It plays a role in all sports and in life in general. Ever watch a short strongman try the Atlas stones?

You mentioned genetics, what about coaching, funding, etc…

Fairness in sport doesn’t mean all athletes had the same opportunity. At the top level of most Olympic sports it’s decided by the countries culture and decision to commit funds to training and coaching.

Fairness in sport has little to do with what you do to get there, it only means that in the specific competition judges competitors based on the same rules.

[quote]mattwray wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
The reason people are so hung up on shirts is that when people state how much they bench to the average Joe they don’t say with a shirt.

Bullshit. I would like for you to show one powerlifter you know that when asked, how much ya bench, responds to a regular guy with his shirt numbers. I have yet to meet one, and I know a lot of lifters.

Anytime someone asks me, if I answer them, I tell them my best raw lift because I know they don’t understand. Normally I just tell them I don’t know and leave it at that. I only talk geared lifting with other powerlifters.

Airtruth wrote:
Even the thread on here says Ryan 1036 Bench. Not Ryan 1036 Bench with shirt. Why is this important?

Because the average person now thinks Ryan can walk into a gym with him and throw up 1036 lbs, which unless he walks around all day with his shirt on is simply not true.

So the average person that reads the Strength section on T-mag doesn’t understand bench shirts? Or the average guy on the street, because so many of them even know about this website.

That’s my last comment on this retardedness.
[/quote]

LOLOLOL
This is a great website, but you live in a very small flat, everybody is healthy world if you believe the average person walking around knows about this site.

As far as what numbers people list. It’s pretty obvious from my example that the settings are not always stated. Like I said the thread was Ryan Kelly’s 1036 lbs Bench press. Now I’m sure theres at least a hundred guys telling there friends hey somebody benched 1036 lbs, you think all their friends know about shirts? I guess in your world your right.

You need to reread what I wrote and think about it as your post reflects you did not comprehend what I wrote in the least bit.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
My question about overhead pressing, quite a few strength coaches and some PT’s have commented on this. Now considering overhead pressing may not help a bench press, I dont know if it could hurt it, but if it helps balance the rotator cuff in terms of what plane strength is developed in and can help prevent injuries is it worth it?[/quote]

Read the March 2006 article. That will answer your question.

[quote]malonetd wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
Personally, I think that the biggest problem about bench shirts is that you can win a competition simply by having the “better” shirt. For example, lifter A can bench 600 raw while lifter B can bench 610 raw. If A wears a shirt that adds 200 pounds to his bench, he will be able to lift 800, but if B could only manage to get 180 pounds from his shirt, he’d only lift 790 and lose to lifter A.

You see, lifter B is actually stronger in real life, but because lifter A has a “better” shirt, he beats B. Therefore, choosing the right shirt has become a major factor in lifts, and you can’t really test who’s stronger as long as shirts are involved.

I don’t entirely agree with this. When your RAW! lifts are as high as some of these guys are, there’s just no set number that is their 1RM. It’s more like a range. In fact, most all lifters are this way, it’s just more pronounced with stronger lifters since 1 pound becomes a smaller and smaller fraction, they heavier the lift gets.

On any given day, lifter A can RRRAAAWWWWW!!! bench 625-650. Lifter B’s range is similar, yet on the day of the competition, for whatever reason, his strength is on the lower end of his range, so he loses.

This isn’t to say shirt technology and shirt proficiency don’t play a role and aren’t important. They do and they are. It’s just that 10 pounds is a very insignificant amount when where’s talking about 800, 900, and even 1000 pound lifts.[/quote]

Take in to account though that 10 pounds can mean the difference in winning and losing. Still, you enlightened me with that 1RM range thing. Great post.

[quote]BigBen72 wrote:

Read the March 2006 article. That will answer your question.

[/quote]

Didnt really answer the question, because the Westside lifters are some of, if not the best there are on average, but my question was more one of injury prevention. Great Article nonetheless. Thanks for that.

Before I started competing I thought equipped lifting was unfair and stupid. When I first began competing I did my first 3 meets raw. I now train exclusively for geared lifting.

My take on this is, if you don’t compete then your opinion doesn’t mean jack. Until you get in front of an audience and judges and compete against other very strong people then you don’t truly know.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
My question about overhead pressing, quite a few strength coaches and some PT’s have commented on this. Now considering overhead pressing may not help a bench press, I dont know if it could hurt it, but if it helps balance the rotator cuff in terms of what plane strength is developed in and can help prevent injuries is it worth it?[/quote]

You know, I firmly believe that proper overhead pressing of some sort will help save your shoulders. Dan John is big on it as well. However, my bench is nothing special and I am no expert on the subject. I think there is a possibility of heavy overhead pressing hurting your bench at the elite end of the benching spectrum. With the added technical mastery aspect of shirted lifting, there is a distinct possibility that time spent pressing overhead will not help you, as it takes away time spent mastering technical aspects of your bench, as well as time spent familiarizing yourself with the groove and attributes of your shirt. It would be interesting to hear some elite benchers talk about that. As far as raw bench is concerned, my personal opinion is that overhead work helps the bottom range of the bench by helping strengthen the lats, back and shoulders as well as the tris.

Bench shirt or no bench shirt…

All Top 50 equipped lifters can “smoke” raw lifters…raw Vs. raw…or equipped Vs. equipped. That is the bottom line.

Sure I have benched 600 equipped. No doubt I cannot come close to that raw. I have benched 435 raw with a full second pause at the bottom WITH my ass on the bench…at 43 years of age and 200lbs BW. My stroke is long and well my waist is 33" (no gut to bench off).

This equipped Vs. raw debate has gone on forever. Strong is strong!

I NEVER do any overhead shoulder work to speak of. My shoulder work consistes of 20-25 reps of side and front raises. Soemtimes I will do some VERY LIGHT Arnold Presses… but hardly ever. My shoulders are huge. Maybe genetics? Heavy shoulder work has killed me in the past. Training Metal Militia / Westside consists of so much benching that my shoulders could not stand any heavy work otherwise.

My .02

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Shadowzz4 wrote:
My question about overhead pressing, quite a few strength coaches and some PT’s have commented on this. Now considering overhead pressing may not help a bench press, I dont know if it could hurt it, but if it helps balance the rotator cuff in terms of what plane strength is developed in and can help prevent injuries is it worth it?

You know, I firmly believe that proper overhead pressing of some sort will help save your shoulders. Dan John is big on it as well. However, my bench is nothing special and I am no expert on the subject. I think there is a possibility of heavy overhead pressing hurting your bench at the elite end of the benching spectrum. With the added technical mastery aspect of shirted lifting, there is a distinct possibility that time spent pressing overhead will not help you, as it takes away time spent mastering technical aspects of your bench, as well as time spent familiarizing yourself with the groove and attributes of your shirt. It would be interesting to hear some elite benchers talk about that. As far as raw bench is concerned, my personal opinion is that overhead work helps the bottom range of the bench by helping strengthen the lats, back and shoulders as well as the tris.[/quote]

Bench shirts in powerlifting are, IMO, like corked bats in baseball. Sure, a better bat might mean a few better hits, but a corked bat provides enough advantage that it takes something away from the sport.

I hate training in my shirt. But I like winning my weight class :slight_smile:

Well said.

[quote]Gatorarmz wrote:
I hate training in my shirt. But I like winning my weight class :)[/quote]

I don’t personally have a problem with shirts but do think it has gotten out of hand. Before anyone labels me a hater, please note that I have an Inzer EHDHP bench shirt, Ernie Frantz squat suit, Titan knee and wrist wraps and two of the best power belts money can buy. Some basic support is fine but it’s ridiculous when a lifter has to pull the bar down to his chest.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Bench shirts in powerlifting are, IMO, like corked bats in baseball. Sure, a better bat might mean a few better hits, but a corked bat provides enough advantage that it takes something away from the sport.[/quote]

Your analogy would be correct ONLY if every baseball player in the league were using a corked bat and the only people who gave a damn about that fact were those who had never played, never attended a game, and never even watched one on tv.

[quote]SprinterOne wrote:
Before I started competing I thought equipped lifting was unfair and stupid. When I first began competing I did my first 3 meets raw. I now train exclusively for geared lifting.

My take on this is, if you don’t compete then your opinion doesn’t mean jack. Until you get in front of an audience and judges and compete against other very strong people then you don’t truly know. [/quote]

Us non-competitors would happily keep our opinions to ourselves, except many of your friends question why the sport doesn’t gain popularity. How come ESPN doesn’t show it instead of video game competitions? How come there isn’t a higher reward for winning competitions? It sure would be nice to know if I’m waiting through a commercial to watch a guy bench a weight, or a shirt.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
Before I started competing I thought equipped lifting was unfair and stupid. When I first began competing I did my first 3 meets raw. I now train exclusively for geared lifting.

My take on this is, if you don’t compete then your opinion doesn’t mean jack. Until you get in front of an audience and judges and compete against other very strong people then you don’t truly know.

Us non-competitors would happily keep our opinions to ourselves, except many of your friends question why the sport doesn’t gain popularity. How come ESPN doesn’t show it instead of video game competitions? How come there isn’t a higher reward for winning competitions? It sure would be nice to know if I’m waiting through a commercial to watch a guy bench a weight, or a shirt.[/quote]

Is that what this is all about? A couple of powerlifters hoping for their sport to be more widely recognized?

Because I could have sworn for a minute there, it was about people thinking someone could bench 1000 lbs raw, oh wait…nevermind, it was about football players wearing lighter pads…ah, damn, wrong again, it was about a general concern for the health of the lifters because of the supposed dangers of lifting such unreal amounts of weight…wait…

In the two threads about this, there have been 6 different reasons following the phrases “The only thing that bothers me is…”, “I wouldnt have a problem with it…”.

If someone wants to bitch about video game competitions on a SPORTS network, fine, let them. I dont see how you can compare thinking that video game competitions on a sports network is comparable to bench shirts in powerlifting. Powerlifting is for and by the lifters…not for the keyboard warriors on some forums who bitch and moan about how equipped lifters are cheating.

This is like walking into an IFBB conference and launching into an anti-steroid tirade. Its useless. No one is going to listen to you because they dont care. Youre not changing anyones minds, so stop wasting your time complaining about it. If it were anything beyond a personal self-esteem issue, I think many of the people complaining about this would have stopped a long time ago.

Its not YOUR sport, its not YOUR decision to make, its not YOUR problem. Everyone just shut the fuck up about this already.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
Before I started competing I thought equipped lifting was unfair and stupid. When I first began competing I did my first 3 meets raw. I now train exclusively for geared lifting.

My take on this is, if you don’t compete then your opinion doesn’t mean jack. Until you get in front of an audience and judges and compete against other very strong people then you don’t truly know.

Us non-competitors would happily keep our opinions to ourselves, except many of your friends question why the sport doesn’t gain popularity. How come ESPN doesn’t show it instead of video game competitions? How come there isn’t a higher reward for winning competitions? It sure would be nice to know if I’m waiting through a commercial to watch a guy bench a weight, or a shirt.[/quote]

Do you ever watch Strongman comps on TV? Have you complained about the gear they use or the techniques they are allowed to use?

It’s unfortunate that PL hasn’t caught on to mainstream, but you cannot “blame” shirts for it. How much TV exposure did it (or O-lifting) get before the big bench shirts? How many cable stations or networks are knocking on the door of of the IPF or raw feds?

You may be able to come up with an argument that the level of juicing is responsible for the drop in bodybuilding popularity, but I think you’d be hard pressed to come up with examples of how the mainstream media have passed over PL due to shirt use.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
Before I started competing I thought equipped lifting was unfair and stupid. When I first began competing I did my first 3 meets raw. I now train exclusively for geared lifting.

My take on this is, if you don’t compete then your opinion doesn’t mean jack. Until you get in front of an audience and judges and compete against other very strong people then you don’t truly know.

Us non-competitors would happily keep our opinions to ourselves, except many of your friends question why the sport doesn’t gain popularity. How come ESPN doesn’t show it instead of video game competitions? How come there isn’t a higher reward for winning competitions? It sure would be nice to know if I’m waiting through a commercial to watch a guy bench a weight, or a shirt.[/quote]

The sport gains no popularity because it’s fucking boring to watch.

Sad as I am to say it, unless you’re a lifter yourself and understand what goes into the training and how it feels it’s boring to watch.

Strongman’s great to watch, lots of running, lots of movement lots of heavy things people can assoicate with.

Olympic lifting’s great to watch, long bar travel, crazy body positino (rock bottom catch in the snatch!!) and you’ll see some great recoverys where they chase the bar around the platform from time to time.

What does powerlifting have? A big jacked guy lying or standing in the one position, moving a bend bar (which people just can’t concievably measure or understand what the weight feels like) and 10-20 inches of bar travel. Over and over again. It’s just not exciting to watch for someone who doesn’t get it.

It’s not the drugs and it’s not the gear, it’s the sport itself.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

Us non-competitors would happily keep our opinions to ourselves, except many of your friends question why the sport doesn’t gain popularity. How come ESPN doesn’t show it instead of video game competitions? How come there isn’t a higher reward for winning competitions? It sure would be nice to know if I’m waiting through a commercial to watch a guy bench a weight, or a shirt.[/quote]

So let me get this straight- ESPN is protecting the viewing public from sports of dubious integrity?