While the thought behind it was incorrect, there’s an aspect to which there’s truth to it.
Namely, as one approaches the speed of light, the measurable apparent size of the rest of the universe decreases. Travel fast enough, and the universe is apparently only one inch (or whatever) across, and moment of arrival at a far end of the universe is virtually the same moment to the traveler as the moment of departure.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
While the thought behind it was incorrect, there’s an aspect to which there’s truth to it.
Namely, as one approaches the speed of light, the measurable apparent size of the rest of the universe decreases. Travel fast enough, and the universe is apparently only one inch (or whatever) across, and moment of arrival at a far end of the universe is virtually the same moment to the traveler as the moment of departure.[/quote]
But that means it’s the way it appears, not the way it is. Like when you’re driving really fast and all of the yellow lines turn into one big yellow line, just on a much grander scale.
I think there is a pretty good chance that they do or did given the size and age of the universe. One thing that annoys me is there is a good chance that I will live and die without knowing for sure.
One issue though is that they might exist but in a form or dimension that we would not be able to interact with or even detect them.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
One issue though is that they might exist but in a form or dimension that we would not be able to interact with or even detect them.[/quote]
Well, if you’re unable to interact and even detect them. Isn’t that pretty much the same as them not existing?
[quote]Marlind wrote:
Well I had a debate with a guy in my Earth Sciences and Astronomy class.The existence of aliens is very very plausible but their arrival to earth is IMO not possible.AS far as I know a particle needs an infinite amount of energy to travel to the speed of light so traveling at that speed is out of question,plus even if they had the ability to travel to the speed of light(LETS SAY NEAR THAT SPEED BECAUSE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS DO NOT ALLOW IT) you would need millions of years to travel from one system,galaxy etc to earth.Its impossible.
The guy I discussed started throwing shit like: they may be able to modify laws of physics etc.I cut him short and left him feeling like shit.One possibility,Its very very very unlikely but I’m trying to look at all possible explanations ,the use of Worm-holes to travel top great distances in a short time.BUT i didn’t say this,because the motherfucker was an illogical prick and he would take this theory on the spot and wouldn’t accept more arguments.And i seriously hate to lose to illogical motherfuckers :P.[/quote]
Who says they didn’t set off travelling at sublight speeds several million years ago? They could be very long lived, or they could be using generation ships or possibly they could have found some way to travel through space that is outside what we have imagined.
Quantum tunneling and spin pairing of sub atomic particles theoretically allows for the concept of sending a facsimile of yourself any distance instantly.
[quote]asusvenus wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
One issue though is that they might exist but in a form or dimension that we would not be able to interact with or even detect them.
Well, if you’re unable to interact and even detect them. Isn’t that pretty much the same as them not existing?[/quote]
Depends on your point of view I suppose. As far as a bacteria is concerned they have no concept of our existence however without it certain of them would cease to exist.
Geez, have none of you ever watched the X-Files?
There was a theory proposed by a “scientist” in the show (the episode where the community believes cockroaches are killing poeple) where he stated that any visitors to our planet from outer space would not be life forms, but machines sent by intelligent life forms.
Why would a technologically advanced civilization send it’s people on long, risky voyages in space when it could send robots/machines to do the same work?
We do that now, for the most part.
[quote]Marlind wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Marlind wrote:
Well I had a debate with a guy in my Earth Sciences and Astronomy class.The existence of aliens is very very plausible but their arrival to earth is IMO not possible.AS far as I know a particle needs an infinite amount of energy to travel to the speed of light so traveling at that speed is out of question,plus even if they had the ability to travel to the speed of light(LETS SAY NEAR THAT SPEED BECAUSE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS DO NOT ALLOW IT) you would need millions of years to travel from one system,galaxy etc to earth.Its impossible.The guy I discussed started throwing shit like: they may be able to modify laws of physics etc.I cut him short and left him feeling like shit.One possibility,Its very very very unlikely but I’m trying to look at all possible explanations ,the use of Worm-holes to travel top great distances in a short time.BUT i didn’t say this,because the motherfucker was an illogical prick and he would take this theory on the spot and wouldn’t accept more arguments.And i seriously hate to lose to illogical motherfuckers :P.
Why would it take millions of years.As far a as I know, Traveling at or near the speed of light would indeed reguire an infinite powere source but the ships mass and everything on it would grow untill it was the size of the universe.
It would require million of years because there are galaxies 10 million light years away from our own,but ur right too :).[/quote]
Right I spaced out on the “millions” of light years part.
[quote]asusvenus wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
One issue though is that they might exist but in a form or dimension that we would not be able to interact with or even detect them.
Well, if you’re unable to interact and even detect them. Isn’t that pretty much the same as them not existing?[/quote]
We cant see or detect dark matter but we know it exists.
its got to be yes. theres no way an infinite universe could only produce one planet like our own. i dont think good things would come out of contact though. look what happened when the english “contacted” a quarter of the world 150 years or so ago.
This might be an overanalytical response that balances between a hard scientific viewpoint and depserate existentialism, but…
I think it all depends in what we consider life. Really, what more is life than a bunch of self-perpetuating chemical reactions? We all seem to be just a bunch of molecules that, as a whole, exhibit lots of emergent properties like the coordination of the systems and the organism as a whole (not just the individual molecules), and having behaviors that cause the organism to intake the molecules necessary to continue to function (i.e. food and water) - keep perpetuating those chemical reactions. And we reproduce to keep those chemical reactions continuing beyond the individual. Really, that’s all life seems to be.
I think in different parts of the universe there might be conditions where certain molecules interact with each other in a way that’s self-perpetuating.
Just an aside, does anyone else think that considering ourselves as merely a massive complex combination of interacting molecular particles is a bit horrifying? It seems to strip away all of the abstractions and illusions that we create in order to give us some feeling of “significance” or “meaning.”
It almost feels like science has completely stripped us of the wonder of existence. I guess that’s just the way things are, though.
Fermi’s Paradox points to no other civilizations but our own exist or that they are exceedingly rare, perhaps one civilization per galaxy or less.
Fermi’s basic supposition based on lack of evidence of extraterrestrial civilizations is a powerful one that does seem to be reflected in what we see around us, however; he also makes technological assumptions about these civilizations that simply can’t be proven.
I personally think that there are certain barriers in societal organization (government) that prevent them and us from becoming a space-fairing species. Perhaps a Peter principle of civilization where a species will reach a certain point and stagnate due to their own inherent inability to plan for the long term.
They would be ultimately doomed because a planetary or stellar catastrophe will destroy them at some point. If we could look at our galaxy from a distance we would see civilizations rise and fall in the blink of an eye in relationship to a galactic time span.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
There is a theory that civilizations far more advanced than ours may exist and, because they view us as simplistic, choose not to reveal themselves or communicate with us. Like when a human being walks by an ant.
I forget who proposed this but I was reading about it in the book Hyperspace.[/quote]
I like to think about it this way. What gets me, is that many people assume that aliens are limited as physical beings, at least as we comprehend them. They have bodies or at least groups of cells, and if if they ever do show up, they’ll try to start communicating w/ gestures, hand signals, vocalizations, maybe some mathematical equations or somethingn like that.
You think if they are so advanced, they may have other ways of communicating, or sharing information with us. Maybe they are trying to, but we are not advanced enough to hear them.
With string theory and all the shit we do not know or understand about the nature of reality or the universe we, I’m not going to rule out the possiblity. The internet and all of this other technological bullshit that makes our lives easier, does not make us in any way an ‘advanced’ or ‘intelligent’ species. To try and reduce something complex into simpler forms that our minds can comprehend, express into language, and communicate, does not do just justice to those more complex forms.
"Not only is the universe stranger than you imagine,
It’s stranger than you can imagine."Arthur C. Clarke
[quote]asusvenus wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
One issue though is that they might exist but in a form or dimension that we would not be able to interact with or even detect them.
Well, if you’re unable to interact and even detect them. Isn’t that pretty much the same as them not existing?[/quote]
No. We didn’t know about radio waves, until a little more than a century ago. People had an idea of them, but we didn’t have antennas, receivers, transmitters, and all the signal processing equipment to measure, create, or use them.
Did they exist. Yes. We were completely oblivious to it, but they were still there.
Did anyone think about this?-
Our universe is a peice of dirt on the “world” of a race that is unimaginably larger than us. There would be an infinite number of universes (all being other peices of dirt), and our existence here, as beings on Earth, was completely unknown to this other race.
Anyways, I was reading two days ago that not only are there an estimated 100 billion stars in our galaxy, but that there are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in our universe. Not only that, but a lot of recent theories are saying that there may be other universes besides our own. It would be stupid beyond belief to think that there aren’t other life forms out there. Even intelligent ones are likely to exist somewhere.
In terms of seeing them, maybe we never will. Or, maybe history will repeat itself, and humans will realize that maybe we don’t know everything about the laws of physics in our universe, and things that we didn’t think possible start to become a reality. Maybe finding a way to crush down matter into a rediculously small space, and travel through an aimed black hole? Who knows… we surely don’t.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
asusvenus wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
One issue though is that they might exist but in a form or dimension that we would not be able to interact with or even detect them.
Well, if you’re unable to interact and even detect them. Isn’t that pretty much the same as them not existing?
We cant see or detect dark matter but we know it exists.
[/quote]
That’s only because it interacts with matter near it.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
asusvenus wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
One issue though is that they might exist but in a form or dimension that we would not be able to interact with or even detect them.
Well, if you’re unable to interact and even detect them. Isn’t that pretty much the same as them not existing?
No. We didn’t know about radio waves, until a little more than a century ago. People had an idea of them, but we didn’t have antennas, receivers, transmitters, and all the signal processing equipment to measure, create, or use them.
Did they exist. Yes. We were completely oblivious to it, but they were still there. [/quote]
That doesn’t change the fact that it does interact with matter, regardless if we know how to exploit this or not.
So about faster-than-light travel… is it possible? Maybe not in traditional terms of just igniting a fuel to create force, but like through wormholes or shit like that. I’m just wanting to get up to date on what hypotheses the scientific community has right now for possible galaxy-wide space travel.
I saw 'em along with a bunch of other kids back when I was boy scout camp. I don’t really care to give them much thought if they’re going to keep their distance.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
So about faster-than-light travel… is it possible? Maybe not in traditional terms of just igniting a fuel to create force, but like through wormholes or shit like that. I’m just wanting to get up to date on what hypotheses the scientific community has right now for possible galaxy-wide space travel.[/quote]
Correct me if im wrong but the idea of a worm allowing you to travel faster than other wise possible is wrong I beleive.
What is the difference between a worm hole and an Einstien bridge, if they are the same then speed has nothing to do with the traveling itself because the worm hole is a short cut.