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Conor’s truly great and now only the diehard deniers keep denying.
Fact is that boxing a p4p champ is hard.
Yes, it was foolhardy to frontally assault right from the getgo.
But just as it is unusual to start of so reckless with no jab, no feinting and little caution it is just as unusual, as in unusually skilled, to counter so aggressively in the first real exchange.
Conor’s move was difficult to pull off and also reckless.
Boxing nerds might appreciate how beautiful that counter was, little do they often appreciate how much more difficult the actual fistslinging becomes without those giant gloves.
Regarding Conor’s future:
Going up to lightweight means a sharp increase in danger for the goldpot laying leprechaun.
Is that part of the UFC conspiracy?
Is potentially facing Cowboy Cerrone, DosAnavarjos and Khabib Nurmagamedved the easy route?
Conor’s coach John Kavanagh had said he didn’t want Conor to make the cut to 145 anymore and Conor himself said he would like a break from it. I think he now has more power over his next fight than any other fighter in the UFC. Dana and Co may begin to find it hard to control him. He is looking at a potential 6 month medical suspension as well regarding a wrist injury so who knows how things may look in 6 months time.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
What is more interesting than the actual fight is to watch how Dana White will now make sure that McGregor keeps the title as he is a big draw for many reasons and Ireland PPV dollars go way up.
[/quote]
The population of Ireland is less than 5 million… It would be kind of a weird business strategy to target Ireland for PPV buys when it is one of the least populous nations around?
But yeah, Dana White, and the casino owners that run/own the UFC are shifty as hell.
Conor McGregor was never a champion boxer.
He was trained in Crumlin Boxing Club for a while by Phil Sutcliffe.
Phil Sutcliffe is a good coach and produces good fellas; in the hierarchy of their gym McGregor was never high level or near it.
C’mon ZEB.
We all know Conor got a special treatent. We all know Mendes was crushing him on the ground. An attention whore…sure…
But hell, this guy is something special. He’s bringing in the cash. And he didn’t lose yet. He has plenty of hard fights on his road. If he stays a feather, there is an inevitable rematch with Chad, Frankie is in front of the line for a shot, Aldo might get another shot, Holloway is coming leaps and bounds. Those could all be really hard fights. Just enjoy the ride man. If he was to be crushed by a ground-beast, that will happen. Even Dana can’t pull of a title shot from Cub right now.
[quote]redstar144 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
I knew conor was going to be a great fighter
[/quote]
A great fighter? Really? G R E A T?
Since when is someone in MMA called a “great fighter” who has no ground game? And who was in fact held down and beaten for two rounds by an out of shape wrestler by the name of Chad Mendes.
Dana “The Great Manipulator” White will never rematch Mendes against McGregor E V E R. Because he knows McGregor’s weakness is on the ground and any good MMA grappler would beat him to a pulp.
As for stand up sure he’s great.
[/quote]
To say he has no ground game is a gross exaggeration. He defended 3 of Mendes 7 takedown attempts. One of the successful TD’s came from a stupid flying knee at the beginning of the fight and he got straight back to his feet. He also defended the sub attempt pretty damn well.
Lets not forget this is Chad Mendes too, he was always gonna have the upper hand in the grappling. The only guy he couldn’t dominate with his wrestling was Aldo who has godly TD defence.
McGregor badly tore knee ligaments before that fight which disrupted his preparations too.
McGregor also dominated Max Holloway on the ground after tearing his ACL.
Is his ground game as advanced as Aldo or Edgar? No. But he definitely does not have zero ground game. He is 100% a great fighter and will continue to show this.
Also how is he being protected from grapplers when his next fight is either going to be Edgar or RDA at lightweight.[/quote]
Keep these points in mind:
Mendes took the fight on two weeks notice. So the fact that McGregor won is not testimony to the fact that he has a good ground game for the level he fights at. Take a look at his face after the Medes fight. Mendes, an out of shape wrestler, and who is not “great” was beating the “great” McGregor.
Sometimes even Dana “The Great Manipulator” has to put his golden goose on the line because there are no other top ranked fighters to match his golden goose with. And so it goes with a McGregor/Edgar fight. Dana will be biting his nails hoping that Edgar is foolish enough to stand with McGregor. In fact, no doubt he will have his little elves hanging around the Edgar training camp goading Edgar into standing with McGregor. Yes…Dana White does things like that all the time!
Glad you are buying the hype that Dana is feeding you. But, when you call McGregor a “great” fighter you actually do a disservice to all of the prior great fighters in the sport. Will McGregor someday be a great fighter? He very well may be, is have nothing against him I am looking at this objectively. But, right now he is a big mouth from Ireland with a really good stand-up game. And those are the things that Dana White loves. Irish pay per view, a big mouth who sells tickets and someone who wants to fight on his feet as that is what the simpleton fans who do not understand grappling love. But as I said his ground game, for the level he is at, is inferior by large margins. If Edgar decides to make this a wrestling match McGregor will lose. If he tries to stand and strike Edgar will most likely lose.
One more point…
Be careful calling any fighter great. There have been only a few really great fighters in the UFC. Simply because someone wins the title does not make them great. Anyone winning a title can certainly be called a champion. But, the word “Great” gets thrown around far too often.
It’s not just ground skills that McGregor lacks, it’s also time as a champion. If he is able to defend his title a multitude of times against all comers (GSP-Anderson silva and there are a few others) and is able to fight back when down and wins most of his fights decisively… then you can call him great and I will agree with you. As for today he is an exceptional striker with a poor ground game for his level. But, let’s see what happens over the next several McGregor fights before we call him great.
[quote]SKman wrote:
[quote]slimjim wrote:
I think if dos anjos wins Conor fights Frankie, if cerronne wins the ufc pushes for that fight instead[/quote]
Funny these were my thoughts exactly. Stylistically Cerrone presents the most favourable and most marketable match-up. I thinks Edgar presents a lot of problems for Connor and will be avoided if at all possible. I am not sure they could really justify Connor fighting anyone other than Frankie if Connor stays at 145. He is way overdue for his shot.[/quote]
The same way that they rationalized not giving Aldo a rematch. How long was he champion? How many years did he go undefeated? Yet, no word of a rematch. Does anyone find that odd, or are people just walking around in a stupor unaware of and unable to read between the lines?
Silva loses gets a rematch
Cain loses and gets a rematch
Hughes loses and gets a rematch
Rousey loses and there will be a rematch
There are many, many more examples…
How many times does the champion lose and get a rematch? Just about every time. But not Aldo…no rematch for him. Dana “The Manipulator” White knows one thing. Aldo does not sell as many tickets as McGregor. Therefore, why risk a rematch? End of story and all fairness totally disregarded.
The corrupt UFC carries on and everyone is just fine with it.
[quote]zenontheterrible wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
What is more interesting than the actual fight is to watch how Dana White will now make sure that McGregor keeps the title as he is a big draw for many reasons and Ireland PPV dollars go way up.
[/quote]
The population of Ireland is less than 5 million… It would be kind of a weird business strategy to target Ireland for PPV buys when it is one of the least populous nations around?
But yeah, Dana White, and the casino owners that run/own the UFC are shifty as hell. [/quote]
An additional 5 million is a great ad on for the UFC. If an American were to beat McGregor will that add even another 10,000 PPV buys? Probably not. Also, McGregor himself sells tickets with his big mouth. Not unlike Muhammed Ali did in boxing back in the day. People will buy McGregors fights because he is colorful and you either like him, so you buy the fight to see him win,
or you hate him so you buy the fight to see him lose.
And that is a perfect scenario for White and one that he wants to keep going as long as he possibly can.
As for the UFC “being shifty as hell” I think it goes far beyond that.
[quote]Panopticum wrote:
C’mon ZEB.
We all know Conor got a special treatent. We all know Mendes was crushing him on the ground. An attention whore…sure…
But hell, this guy is something special. He’s bringing in the cash. And he didn’t lose yet. He has plenty of hard fights on his road. If he stays a feather, there is an inevitable rematch with Chad, Frankie is in front of the line for a shot, Aldo might get another shot, Holloway is coming leaps and bounds. Those could all be really hard fights. Just enjoy the ride man. If he was to be crushed by a ground-beast, that will happen. Even Dana can’t pull of a title shot from Cub right now.
[/quote]
As I said in a previous post, where is the talk of an Aldo rematch? All I hear are crickets chirping. That alone should set off signals that something is wrong. Also, McGregor will not fight Mendes again unless or until McGregor’s defense to various takedowns has been honed to a fine hue. Did you know that the UFC has talented wrestlers and strikers who work for them training certain fighters that they want to see improve?
When Dana wants you to win you usually win he makes sure of that. Granted he does not have a perfect record. I was loving the Rousey loss not just because Rousey acts like a cheap bar room slut. But, because that shot Dana’s golden goose in the head and killed it forever (okay one more rematch with Holm then dead forever). But, before you make any bets on any fight ask yourself this question: “who does Dana White want to win.” Why that question? Because about 90% of the time the person who Dana wants to win will win. And it’s not difficult to figure out who he wants to win most of the time.
Of course many times he makes matches where the UFC wins either way. There are plenty of those. But as far as keeping a champion he likes, a golden goose, on top there is no one better at it than White …The Great Manipulator.
McGregor for me is great due to his stand up skills, mental fortitude and intelligence. I think he will have learned a lot from the Mendes fight and he will be a lot better against Edgar. He said himself he just wanted to throw leather against Mendes he didn’t fight smart. The two week thing works both ways as well. McGregor was preparing for a very different opponent. Out of shape or not Mendes is always going to have good takedowns. Don’t overlook the injury McGregor was dealing with. I believe you are including overall contribution to the sport in your defintion of greatness, I’m just talking about ability. Also I couldn’t care less about what Dana says, I make my opinions myself based on what I see and from watching technical breakdowns by people far more knowledgable than I.
The reason in my mind for Aldo not getting a rematch is there is a clear contender in Edgar for the next shot whereas in the HW and WBW divisions there was no clear contender. Anderson was a big draw in the way Aldo never was so that helped his case. Also I think people have McGregor Aldo fatigue there has already been a year of it. I want to see McGregor up against someone fresh
I don’t think Zeb is wrong in his assessment, the UFC is a business not a sport with fairness in mind and is chasing dollars - right now the money fight would be Corrine Vs McGregor with the added benefit of the fact that Cerrone will probably stand and trade with Connor - plus if Connor loses he goes back down in weight and is still a marketable champ and would be giving Ceronne some of his shine.
Could you imagine Connor being matched up with Tony Ferguson right now? Or Dos Anjos? or Khabib? or Eddie Alvarez? Michel Johnson even? Those guys would look to murder him on the ground. I bet if McGregor were to beat Cerrone they would push for him to fight Joe Duffy next bypassing a litany of more deserving contenders at 55, using the selling point of revenge fight…but I’m getting ahead of myself.
As for why the UFC bent over backwards to push Connor to the top, the UFC isn’t looking to corner simply the Irish market, they know they need a marketable white guy to appeal to that fan base that drives ppv buys. Right now you got Werdum, Cormier (or Jones who everyone hates) Weidman who just didn’t have that charisma, and for whatever reason Rockhold has been largely unlikeable, Lawler hasn’t gotten the push he should have - hardcore fans love the old school fighter making a comeback late in his career, then Dos Anjos, TJ, and Might Mouse. After Ronda bit the big one they realize they’re short a super star which I think they could have made with Lawler but realize his division is too competitive and he might be too late in his career to hold the mantle for very long.
Frankie has a good shot, if the odds heavily favor Connor I’ll be putting money on Edgar - but I’m slowly learning that betting against the Irishman is turning out to be a bad bet.
[quote]redstar144 wrote:
The reason in my mind for Aldo not getting a rematch is there is a clear contender in Edgar for the next shot whereas in the HW and WBW divisions there was no clear contender. Anderson was a big draw in the way Aldo never was so that helped his case. Also I think people have McGregor Aldo fatigue there has already been a year of it. I want to see McGregor up against someone fresh[/quote]
You said the truth in the body of this paragraph. “Aldo never was a big draw”
Dana White always looks to the money over all things. Aldo’s multi year undefeated record means nothing.
Thank you for making my point.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
I don’t think Zeb is wrong in his assessment, the UFC is a business not a sport with fairness in mind and is chasing dollars - right now the money fight would be Corrine Vs McGregor with the added benefit of the fact that Cerrone will probably stand and trade with Connor - plus if Connor loses he goes back down in weight and is still a marketable champ and would be giving Ceronne some of his shine.
Could you imagine Connor being matched up with Tony Ferguson right now? Or Dos Anjos? or Khabib? or Eddie Alvarez? Michel Johnson even? Those guys would look to murder him on the ground. I bet if McGregor were to beat Cerrone they would push for him to fight Joe Duffy next bypassing a litany of more deserving contenders at 55, using the selling point of revenge fight…but I’m getting ahead of myself.
As for why the UFC bent over backwards to push Connor to the top, the UFC isn’t looking to corner simply the Irish market, they know they need a marketable white guy to appeal to that fan base that drives ppv buys. Right now you got Werdum, Cormier (or Jones who everyone hates) Weidman who just didn’t have that charisma, and for whatever reason Rockhold has been largely unlikeable, Lawler hasn’t gotten the push he should have - hardcore fans love the old school fighter making a comeback late in his career, then Dos Anjos, TJ, and Might Mouse. After Ronda bit the big one they realize they’re short a super star which I think they could have made with Lawler but realize his division is too competitive and he might be too late in his career to hold the mantle for very long.
Frankie has a good shot, if the odds heavily favor Connor I’ll be putting money on Edgar - but I’m slowly learning that betting against the Irishman is turning out to be a bad bet.[/quote]
Well said my friend. I would only change one thing. It’s not betting against the Irishman that you have to worry about. It’s betting against Dana White that you never ever want to do.
Ok i will rephrase it ZEB
I have an bone deep feeling McGregor will eventually be a ATG. Theres a reason I never boarded the Rousey hype train because my gut feeling was the woman’s division didn’t have much developed talent in it, and the tough girl on the block attitude was a smokescreen for an individual with a very fragile ego.
Conor on the other hand, the way he talks, thinks about fighting and his open approach to MMA gives me the feeling he will indeed be great, all DW manipulations aside. Moreover, he demolished good fighters and made it look easy. His weakness going forward is still his ground game, but I don’t think its as undeveloped as you say it is.
Also am I the only one who thinks its more dangerous for him to move up to 155 than it is to stick around and fight Edgar? There’s some big, big dudes at 155.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Ok i will rephrase it ZEB
I have an bone deep feeling McGregor will eventually be a ATG. Theres a reason I never boarded the Rousey hype train because my gut feeling was the woman’s division didn’t have much developed talent in it, and the tough girl on the block attitude was a smokescreen for an individual with a very fragile ego.
Conor on the other hand, the way he talks, thinks about fighting and his open approach to MMA gives me the feeling he will indeed be great, all DW manipulations aside. Moreover, he demolished good fighters and made it look easy. His weakness going forward is still his ground game, but I don’t think its as undeveloped as you say it is.
Also am I the only one who thinks its more dangerous for him to move up to 155 than it is to stick around and fight Edgar? There’s some big, big dudes at 155.[/quote]
For being a UFC champion his ground game is woefully underdeveloped. Looking around at various other weight classes I don’t see as weak a ground game anywhere. But I might be missing someone.
I agree with you relative to him moving up. Sometimes it works out when a fighter moves up in weight. But I bet if we look at not only mma but boxing as well the fighter who moves up usually loses…certainly not always. McGregor might be able to pull it off because he has some really incredible striking. But I agree with you it could be his undoing.
I’d like to see Conor defend the title before he tries to move on. Obviously the UFC is going to what is fiscally most advantageous at the end of the day, but I think it’s still in their best interest to line up the title shot first.
There’s the issue that if Conor drops less weight to fight at 155, he may not be able to make 145 again. He already cuts a ton of weight in order to fight at 145. If he trains to fight at 155 and ends up gaining some muscle mass in the process, he could be hospitalized trying to cut back down to 145 after a 155 fight. Could you imagine the uproar that would happen if a main event title fight had to be canceled last minute because the current belt holder has to be hospitalized for trying to make weight? Not only that, but for as much of a chin as Conor has on him cutting more water weight would leave him more susceptible to a decent shot leaving him wobbly. Then there’s the scenario where Conor loses at 155 and loses a significant number of fans as well because they don’t believe he will lose. Any of these situations are bad for the UFC on a financial premise.
Tulkas: I completely agree with this bloke right here. What is Mystic Mac’s walking weight? 172, he said. In top shape? 160?
That’s very small for a light weight. I doubt cerone is even in the 160’s on fight night. So it would be fair to say Mcgregor needs to bulk up a bit. And when you’re comfortable fighting with your body at lightweight…well, there is a reason lightweights aren’t featherweights.
So McGregor’s coach is saying Connor will fight for the LW title in April while continuing to hold the FW belt. I know that life isn’t fair, but if true, it is bullshit to put Frankie Edgar on hold like that. The guy was leapfrogged twice by less deserving guys and now after cleaning out all the other contenders, his division gets put on hold while the newly minted champ jumps up in weight without a single title defense. Weak